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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 6:17 pm 
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Yeah, faoi chois is of course definitely the TT - I suppose what I'm saying is that when the Uimhir Dhé was being taught to me in school, prepositions and 'Dhá' were mentioned in relation to the rule. Preps used to make singular nouns slender (e.g.faoi chois/i mo láimh) and the Uimhir Dhé made words slender (the 5 special words anyway). So, there may be a connection, or two different parts of grammar may have been confused by the teacher.

Still, the message was that dhá chois and ar mo chois were correct (except maybe they weren't, according to FGB!!!)


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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 6:21 pm 
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Scooby wrote:
Yeah, faoi chois is of course definitely the TT - I suppose what I'm saying is that when the Uimhir Dhé was being taught to me in school, prepositions and 'Dhá' were mentioned in relation to the rule. Preps used to make singular nouns slender (e.g.faoi chois/i mo láimh) and the Uimhir Dhé made words slender (the 5 special words anyway). So, there may be a connection, or two different parts of grammar may have been confused by the teacher.

Still, the message was that dhá chois and ar mo chois were correct (except maybe they weren't, according to FGB!!!)


This is probably a stupid question but what does FGB stand for is it Foclóir Gaeidhilge Béarla???

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 7:07 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
mnaoi- tuigim an focal seo úsáidtear é sa dtuiseal tabharthach chomh maith, leis an mnaoi, seachas leis an mbean

Is ionann é an tabharthach uatha agus an ainmneach dé.

Quote:
Chun cruth deirannach a chur air mar san,

Nuair is focal firinscneach ann úsáidtear an uimhir uatha don bhfocal nauir athá amháin agus dhá i gceist agus ansan úsáidtear an iolra nuair athá trí i gceist.

Sin é go díreach!

Quote:
Ach ansan derir go dtagann an tuiseal ginideach i bhfeidhm chomh maith nuair athá beirt, triúr... srl i gceist nuair is focal baininscneach é. ' dtarlaigheannan rud céanda nuair is focal firinscneach ann?: Mar shampla

Fear amháin
beirt fhir???(being ginideach uatha)
triúr fear???- fear being ginideach iolra

"beirt fhear", mar is ionann é an ginideach iolra agus an ginideach dé.

Sa uimhir dé, baintear úsáid as an bhfoirm uatha sa tuiseal ainmneach agus
as an bhfoirm iolra sa tuiseal ginideach. Sin iad na rialta bunaidh. Níl ann ach
aon riail amháin eile.

Tá foirm airithe ag ainmfhocail bhainiscneacha sa ainmneacha dé agus
is mar a chéile é agus agus an tuiseal tabharthach uatha, fé mar a duart thuas.

Quote:
Focal baininscneach-

fuinneog amháin
dhá fhuinneoig (caolú- cosamhail leis an tuiseal tabharthach?)
trí fhuineoga nú trí fhuinneog

Tá an ceart beagnach go hiomlán agat anso. (trí fuinneoga)

Quote:
do chonac ansan go bhfuil: bád amháin
dhá bháid
ach, trí báid (gan séimhíú- Dé chúis?)

Déarfainn "dhá bhád" (dé = uatha don ainmfhocail fhirinscneacha). Is féidir
foirm uatha nó foirm iolra a úsáid tar éis na n-uimhreacha 3-10, ach nuair
úsáidir an uatha, cuirir séimhiú ar an ainmfhocal.

Quote:
agus go mbionn trí each sa gcaighdeán ach ansan trí heich ? (mar adubhairt Lughaidh)

Ó! Do dheineas dearmhad! Trí heich, cinnte!

Tá súil agam go bhfuil sé tairbheach!

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 7:33 pm 
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Location: An Astráil
So is using a plural noun with trí and higher numbers a Munster thing?

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 7:42 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
This is probably a stupid question but what does FGB stand for is it Foclóir Gaeidhilge Béarla???
:yes: Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla (Ó Dónaill)

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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 8:19 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
So is using a plural noun with trí and higher numbers a Munster thing?

It can be done, in my experience. Although I wouldn't say it's the more common of the options. You
are still more likely to here trí bhád than trí báid, but it's not impossible.

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Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 8:50 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
Breandán wrote:
So is using a plural noun with trí and higher numbers a Munster thing?

It can be done, in my experience. Although I wouldn't say it's the more common of the options. You
are still more likely to here trí bhád than trí báid, but it's not impossible.


Its more widespread than munster- its archais and has fallen out of use because of caighdeánú- Pádraic Ó Conaire uses it Beirt Bhan Misniúil.

Go raibh maith agat Saoirse

Lon Dubh go raibh míle maith agat, I've cracked it now, so 3-6 no séimhiú and if its a guta throw in a h before it. What about 7-10 do ya is there an urú???

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(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 9:49 pm 
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Quote:
Lon Dubh go raibh míle maith agat, I've cracked it now, so 3-6 no séimhiú and if its a guta throw in a h before it. What about 7-10 do ya is there an urú???

Okay quick fly through of the whole system.

Nominative:
aon => Takes singular with séimhiú
dhá => Takes dual with séimhiú. For masculine nouns the dual is the same
as the singular. For feminine nouns you just slenderise the ending or its
the same as the singular depending on if the dialect still uses an uimhir dhé.
3-6 => singular + séimhiú or plural with nothing (but h for vowels)
7-10 => singular or plural, both eclipsed

Genitive:
aon => singular with séimhiú
dhá => dual which is the same as the plural in the genitive
The rest are the same as above.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Mon 30 Apr 2012 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1527
An Lon Dubh wrote:
Quote:
Lon Dubh go raibh míle maith agat, I've cracked it now, so 3-6 no séimhiú and if its a guta throw in a h before it. What about 7-10 do ya is there an urú???

Okay quick fly through of the whole system.

Nominative:
aon => Takes singular with séimhiú
dhá => Takes dual with séimhiú. For masculine nouns the dual is the same
as the singular. For feminine nouns you just slenderise the ending or its
the same as the singular depending on if the dialect still uses an uimhir dhé.
3-6 => singular + séimhiú or plural with nothing (but h for vowels)
7-10 => singular or plural, both eclipsed

Genitive:
aon => singular with séimhiú
dhá => dual which is the same as the plural in the genitive
The rest are the same as above.


Thá foighne iontach agat, go raibh mile maith agat. Mo bhuíochas a ghabháilt le gach aoinne eile do chabhraigh chomh maith!

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Uimhir Dhé???
PostPosted: Fri 04 May 2012 10:33 am 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2114
Location: 91 - France
I'm wondering whether this idea of a dual (or as it's often translated - a pair) isn't a characteristic of Celtic languages - a pair of eyes, hands, feet and so on. In Breton for example an ear is skouarn but two ears is divskouarn and there a website that I like, for parents of children in Breton-speaking schools called Div Yezh (two tongues).


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