It is currently Wed 27 May 2026 1:09 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: spadtha?
PostPosted: Sat 24 Jun 2023 5:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1972
In Foclóir Mháirtín Uí Chadhain, there are words not to be found in other dictionaries
E.g. "spadtha" (Is it the same as spadánta, sluggish?)

There are three sentences (translations by me):
- Airighim mo chnámha an-spadtha. (I feel my bones being very ...)
- Tá mo chnámha spadtha ar fad ag díomhaontas na coicíse seo. (: a bheith in a chomhnaí; gan a bheith ag obair) (My bones are totally ... by the unemployment of these 2 weeks)
- Dheamhan go dona dhíom marach cho spadtha agus atá mé. (I am not bad if it weren't for how ... as I am.)

Does anyone know?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Sun 25 Jun 2023 12:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 687
Labhrás wrote:
In Foclóir Mháirtín Uí Chadhain, there are words not to be found in other dictionaries
E.g. "spadtha" (Is it the same as spadánta, sluggish?)

There are three sentences (translations by me):
- Airighim mo chnámha an-spadtha. (I feel my bones being very ...)
- Tá mo chnámha spadtha ar fad ag díomhaontas na coicíse seo. (: a bheith in a chomhnaí; gan a bheith ag obair) (My bones are totally ... by the unemployment of these 2 weeks)
- Dheamhan go dona dhíom marach cho spadtha agus atá mé. (I am not bad if it weren't for how ... as I am.)

Does anyone know?


I don’t know, but in Dinneen’s (1927, p. 1091), the adjective entry “spadach” (cloddish, heavy and wet) and the verb “spadaim” (knock down) along with various other forms using “spad” with similar meanings to what you conjectured. A lot of those entries are idiomatic.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Sun 25 Jun 2023 9:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1751
It must be as Tim said a cognate word. But what about the translation? Exhausted or enervated make more sense than sluggish. Or maybe "I felt listless"?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Sun 25 Jun 2023 1:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 687
I saw there is a blog for that dictionary. Maybe ask there.

Out of curiosity, I plugged those sentences into Google and got the following renderings (except for beginning of the last one "It's a damn shame . . ." which is only my guess. The use of that word in these cases (and similar use of the root "spad" and its derivations in Dinneen's) seems idiomatic.

Airighim mo chnámha an-spadtha. I feel my bones very spasmodic.

Tá mo chnámha spadtha ar fad ag díomhaontas na coicíse seo. - My bones are all spattered by the disobedience(?) of these two weeks.

Dheamhan go dona dhíom marach cho spadtha agus atá mé. It's a damn shame I'm as spoiled as I am.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Sun 25 Jun 2023 1:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri 30 Sep 2011 10:08 pm
Posts: 1313
Yeah I'd only guess it's a local version of spadánta. Sometimes "spad" like in "spadaimsir".

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Sun 25 Jun 2023 4:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1751
tiomluasocein wrote:
Tá mo chnámha spadtha ar fad ag díomhaontas na coicíse seo. - My bones are all spattered by the disobedience(?) of these two weeks.


It means "my bones are exhausted/I am listless and sluggish after spending a fortnight (14 days) doing nothing".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Sun 25 Jun 2023 6:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1972
tiomluasocein wrote:
I saw there is a blog for that dictionary. Maybe ask there.

Out of curiosity, I plugged those sentences into Google and got the following renderings (except for beginning of the last one "It's a damn shame . . ." which is only my guess. The use of that word in these cases (and similar use of the root "spad" and its derivations in Dinneen's) seems idiomatic.

Airighim mo chnámha an-spadtha. I feel my bones very spasmodic.

Tá mo chnámha spadtha ar fad ag díomhaontas na coicíse seo. - My bones are all spattered by the disobedience(?) of these two weeks.

Dheamhan go dona dhíom marach cho spadtha agus atá mé. It's a damn shame I'm as spoiled as I am.


Google Translator has become much better over the years - but in cases of words or phrases it doesn't understand it produces pure fantasy (spattered, spasmodic, spoiled: all words start in sp- as spadtha)
That is less a feature but a bug.

The last sentence is grammatically complex and idiomatic and furthermore shortened and so hard to understand. (And Google translator fails completely. ;) )

Full form of the first part is:
Dheamhan a bhfuil go dona díom. "Demon all-that is bad of-me". But it simply means: Níl mé go dona. = I am not bad.
(Do) dheamhan (/yoon/) is simply a form of emphatic negation, "not" (as well as: "(don) diabhal" in same position).
a bhfuil is missing in the sentence and must be added, "a" is a relative pronoun, "all that", díom is referring back to "a", so "not all is bad that there is of me".

Another example in Ó Cadhain's dictionary is "Dheamhan te dhó inniu" = "Níl sé te inniu." = It is not hot today. (To make things complicated, "dhó" is used instead of "dhe". :S )


Thank you all for your answers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Sun 25 Jun 2023 9:53 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1751
I think it means: there's fuck all wrong with me/I'm not fucking ill at all, apart from being as shattered (=exhausted - exhausted from spending so long doing nothing) as I am. I'll be damned if I'm not really shattered, etc.

I think there's a section in Ó Siadhial's Modern Irish on "d(h)eamhan".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Mon 26 Jun 2023 2:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 11:36 pm
Posts: 687
djwebb2021 wrote:
I think it means: there's fuck all wrong with me/I'm not fucking ill at all, apart from being as shattered (=exhausted - exhausted from spending so long doing nothing) as I am. I'll be damned if I'm not really shattered, etc.

I think there's a section in Ó Siadhial's Modern Irish on "d(h)eamhan".


Yeah, I remember that now. A handy little word.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: spadtha?
PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2023 8:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1972
tiomluasocein wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
I think it means: there's fuck all wrong with me/I'm not fucking ill at all, apart from being as shattered (=exhausted - exhausted from spending so long doing nothing) as I am. I'll be damned if I'm not really shattered, etc.

I think there's a section in Ó Siadhial's Modern Irish on "d(h)eamhan".


Yeah, I remember that now. A handy little word.


Rather long compared with simple "ní". ;)

I don't think there's any cursing implied, just a relic of assertion phrases

There's a paper by Ó Siadhail in Irish in Éiriu, available on jstor
https://www.jstor.org/stable/30008213?r ... b_contents


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 505 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group