Need help with lenition on a name

mimerim · **Posted:** Wed 22 Jun 2016 2:59 am

(Very good to know Bríd pronounces that gh though, so thanks for that!)

Breandán · **Posted:** Wed 22 Jun 2016 7:01 pm

I've PMed Cian to try to get his attention here.

An Cionnfhaolach · **Joined:** Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm **Posts:** 1527

Breandán wrote:

Bríd pronounces the gh in Aonghus (another name I had seen but never heard pronounced):

http://forvo.com/word/aonghus/#ga

I certainly wouldn't like to have the name if the gh were silent.

So from that I would assume a straight g sound for Fearghus as well.

But then I've heard gh in Fearghal pronounced and not pronounced (e.g., Farrell O'Gara):

http://forvo.com/search/Fearghal/

So I don't know. :LOL:

Now, not to throw another spanner in the works, but I have heard that the traditional vocative form of Aonghus was a Aonghusa.

What is the probability that the traditional vocative for Fearghus was also a Fearghusa?

Perhaps Cian could fill us in?

I think the names like Fearghal (Fergal), Aonghus (Aonghas) (<Óengus), Fearghus (<Fergus) were only repopularised as given names in the last hundred years or so, when stories from Irish mythology became more widely known. For instance, Óengus, also known as An Macc Óc, is the son of the Dagda. Fergus is one of the main protagonists in Táin Bó Cúailnge, a defector of Conchobar. While the Aonghus, Fearghus, Fearghal I know spell their names with a lenited -g-, they pronounce it hard, like old Irish. The names are also common in early Modern times (1600s), often spelled with a lenited -g- also, which may have been either hard or soft? :dhera:

Traditionally speaking (Old Irish), Feargus, Aonghas are u-stem nouns, so the vocative singular is uninflected; i.e. A Fhergus, a Óengus. However, the vocative plural is marked with an a, ae-, or ai-suffix, i.e. a Óengusa (-ae, -ai) etc... In middle Irish all these suffixes would have fallen together as -a.

I would think that Aonghas, would be treated as an o-stem (first declension) noun in Modern Irish, so I would presume the vocative would be A Aonghuis /ə Aongis'/ , e.g. '.../ láid a Aonghais': http://www.dil.ie/29365 (3rd line from the bottom).

Cian

Breandán · **Posted:** Thu 23 Jun 2016 6:32 pm

Thanks, Cian.

So from the above, the most likely modern pronunciation in Conamara (preferences for the pronunciation of given individual's names may vary) would be:

a Fhearghuis
(uh) AER-uh-gush
/(ə) æ:rəgəs´/

Bríd Mhór · **Joined:** Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm **Posts:** 2996

An Cionnfhaolach wrote:

While the Aonghus, Fearghus, Fearghal I know spell their names with a lenited -g-, they pronounce it hard, like old Irish.

Relieved I was correct there.

mimerim · **Posted:** Fri 24 Jun 2016 3:43 am

Helpful and so interesting. Ya'll are amazing. Thanks a million.

Embarien · **Joined:** Fri 12 Jun 2015 10:18 pm **Posts:** 46

(Gaelainn na Mumhan) I'd have always pronounced Fearghas as if it were written Fearaíos (fʲa.'ɾˠiːsˠ) and then the gairmeach (A) Fhearghais as /a.'ɾˠiːʃ/, exactly like Carghas and Carghais.

Labhrás · **Joined:** Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm **Posts:** 1973

Scríobh Tomás Ó Máille in "An Béal Beo":

Quote:

Sna focail Fearghus, Aonghus, etc., déantar í den gh tar éis r, n, l (Fearaos, Unaos). Féach éirghe > éirí, etc.

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