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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 5:47 pm 
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Jay Bee wrote:
B: Ha? Níl sé fliuch?
A thiarcais! Even "Ha" is considered to be a question?! 8O


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 6:02 pm 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
Jay Bee wrote:
B: Ha? Níl sé fliuch?
A thiarcais! Even "Ha" is considered to be a question?! 8O


Actually "ha?" is common as a question in Connemara.
In particular in the context: Ha? - What [did you say]?

It'a multi-purpose word. It can also mean "yes/yeah", especially in Ceantar na nOileáin. Or just to add as a confirmation that you are listening (You will often hear Máirtín Tom Sheáinín say it). I remember the first time I met daoine aniar when I started secondary school. And one lad used to say "ha" when I would've said "sea", and I was thinking what do you mean. :LOL:

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 6:20 pm 
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Bríd Mhór wrote:
Actually "ha?" is common as a question in Connemara.
In particular in the context: Ha? - What [did you say]?

It'a multi-purpose word. It can also mean "yes/yeah", especially in Ceantar na nOileáin. Or just to add as a confirmation that you are listening (You will often hear Máirtín Tom Sheáinín say it). I remember the first time I met daoine aniar when I started secondary school. And one lad used to say "ha" when I would've said "sea", and I was thinking what do you mean.
And here was me thinking that "Ha" was a way of showing laughter in written form – ha, ha.
Tuigim anois. Go raibh maith agat, a Bhríd! :)


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 6:28 pm 
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It's not a question, more that it's an ejaculative!

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 6:34 pm 
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PS, it might be a bit Béarlachas, but I used 'tá féar dá bhaint agam' for wanting to get the grass cut (being a farmer).

Any better suggestions?

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 8:13 pm 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
Even "Ha" is considered to be a question?! 8O

Now, is that meant to be a statement? or a question? :LOL:

The problem here is that Níl sé an-tinn isn't really meant to be a question. It is more of an unsure statement inviting a reply.

Perhaps you would have less problem with it if it were followed by "!?" as you yourself used?

I think Robert hit the nail on the head above. This isn't grammatically incorrect, nor is it too difficult for beginners, it is merely a question of punctuation.

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[hr]Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher[/hr]
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 9:16 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
it is merely a question of punctuation.

It was a question of punctuation⸮

(⸮ is the irony mark, as the statement is ironic, but ironically it itself contains the irony of ironically raising a question of punctuation through obscure punctuation, which is meta-ironic, ironically.)

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 9:32 pm 
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Quote:
(⸮ is the irony mark, as the statement is ironic, but ironically it itself contains the irony of ironically raising a question of punctuation through obscure punctuation, which is meta-ironic, ironically.)



My head is in a hall of mirrors

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PostPosted: Tue 19 Aug 2014 10:26 pm 
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Jay Bee wrote:
My head is in a hall of mirrors
Don't worry, Jay Bee. I feel like that all the time. :D


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PostPosted: Wed 20 Aug 2014 11:31 am 
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Jay Bee wrote:
I was going to say I was surprised people would say the things they have above, as if language has no function outside of book-style grammar, but then I remember spending 3 years investigating spoken grammar with maybe 2000 students and how difficult it is for people to see beyond written grammar to the complexities of real-time interaction.
Quite, but it is not only us happy amateurs who suffer real-language-blindness -- after all, the incorrect/incomplete grammar rules that people take to be "grammatically correct" are written by supposed experts.

Now it can be easily seen that most books that attempt to teach "colloquial" English are very selective, and most of us would disagree with a fair number of the phrases taught. One example for the Americans on this board would be "almost". Do you say ALmost, ummost, mmmost or most? Which should be taught. And what is the "colloquial form" for "how are you?" Obviously there is no one correct answer.

Irish, as stated, doesn't use intonation for many things. You need emphatic particles to account for the lack of intonation-as-emphasis. You need to repeat "agus" multiple times to account for the lack of list intonation. Questions aren't intonated, instead relying on particles and question words. The only intonation feature that has been remarked upon in this thread is the use of continuation intonation during storytelling sessions to prevent interruption (the musically-minded might want to think of this in terms of "resolution" - the only line that typically ends on a low tonic note would be the last line of a section).

The authors of BC didn't have access to a modern statistical corpus, so would have been relying on the same flawed human intuition as the rest of us, so would have been prone to either direct interference from English, or to selectively choosing a (possibly minority) feature from an English-influenced dialect.

Either way, take nobody's word for it.

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


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