Indirect Clauses

MacBoo · **Posted:** Tue 11 Jun 2013 5:00 pm

Ah thanks a lot for that.
I'll not say that I totally understand but it's a lot less muddier than it was... :yes:

Errigal · **Joined:** Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm **Posts:** 715

MacBoo wrote:

I have never really understood if gur and ar are interchangeable here, ...ar/gur mhian léi póg....

Gur is the Munster version (as An Lon Dubh has mentioned), but in the other dialects and in the Caighdeán it's ar ,
so unless you're Munster-inclined, use ar.

...ar tógadh ann mé

It dismays and vexes me to hear many Donegal native speakers using gur when it sshould be ar. Bloody Béarlachas again...

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Or bloody RnaG and TG4 where one can hear people who speak Munster or Munster-like Irish sometimes?

Rossaí · **Joined:** Sat 01 Oct 2011 12:03 am **Posts:** 231

Fearaibh Fionntrá abú!!

AnBraonach · **Joined:** Sat 22 Sep 2012 5:40 pm **Posts:** 157

An Lon Dubh wrote:

Lughaidh wrote:

Ba mhaith liom í a bhualadh... = I would like to hit her
Ba mhaith liom í bualadh... = I would like her to hit...

From memory, Ó Siadhail's Modern Irish gives an example from Gaoth Dobhair:

Ba mhaith liom í a phósadh = I would like to marry her
Ba mhaith liom í pósadh = I would like her to marry

when the pronoun isn't the subject of the following verbal noun, you don't use "a" so there's no lenition either.

That's fascinating, I had no idea there was such a construction in Ulster Irish. :good:

Yeah, these forms are very common in Donegal Irish.

Lughaidh wrote:

well, in English I guess you can say either "I want you to marry her" or "I want that you marry her" (nó rud ineacht mar sin)

You can't really say "I want that you marry her" in English, Lughaidh. It's a direct translation from French, or other languages, but isn't really natural in English.

Lughaidh wrote:

ba mhaith liom go mbuailfeadh sí leis an bhfear ba mhaith léi a phógadh.

If using this construction, would dá mbuailfeadh not be more common in Donegal Irish? Or maybe both are.

Slán,

Domhnall

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Quote:

You can't really say "I want that you marry her" in English, Lughaidh. It's a direct translation from French, or other languages, but isn't really natural in English.

lol yeah, someone else told me that in an e-mail... I didn't know :mrgreen:

English grammar is really weirder than Irish grammar... :^:

Saoirse · **Posted:** Fri 14 Jun 2013 9:54 pm

Lughaidh wrote:

English grammar is really weirder than Irish grammar...

AnBraonach · **Joined:** Sat 22 Sep 2012 5:40 pm **Posts:** 157

Lughaidh wrote:

English grammar is really weirder than Irish grammar...

Is fíor duit!

An Cionnfhaolach · **Joined:** Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm **Posts:** 1527

Errigal wrote:

MacBoo wrote:

I have never really understood if gur and ar are interchangeable here, ...ar/gur mhian léi póg....

Gur is the Munster version (as An Lon Dubh has mentioned), but in the other dialects and in the Caighdeán it's ar ,
so unless you're Munster-inclined, use ar.

...ar tógadh ann mé

It dismays and vexes me to hear many Donegal native speakers using gur when it sshould be ar. Bloody Béarlachas again...

How is "gur" or "go" Béarlachas exactly

, I have heard that it was, maybe from looking through the Old Site but no one was able to substantiate it?

Hallow XIII · **Joined:** Wed 24 Apr 2013 4:42 pm **Posts:** 32

Indeed. If anything, it looks much more Albannachas than Béarlachas to me, so explanations from anybody who knows more on this issue would be very welcome :??:

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