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PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012 7:03 am 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
Breandán wrote:
The YouTube link to Iarla singing is in the first post and we'd worked out most of the rest of it except blais (which would make sense if it had an object.)

Well, it's good to know that you've got it all worked out; I won't bother explaining the meaning of the song then … :bolt:

Ah, come on, WFM, be a sport. :wave: We're all waiting to find out now we know you know. :D

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PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012 12:21 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
More likely bog braon is playing on the "moving" or "letting down" of the breast milk, and the parallel to giving an old person a drink of whiskey.


Only the Irish could draw a comparison between breast feeding and whiskey. :LOL:

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PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012 3:51 pm 
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I haven't researched this at all, so I can only let you know what I was told by the person who taught me the song. He said that the "seanduine" is the youngest boy in the family of the person who is singing the song; so the singer is being ironic when he refers to the small boy as "seanduine". In the old days, most young kids didn't wear shoes very much, so their feet would get washed before they went to bed. The "braon" is milk of course – NOT whisky :) As I mentioned earlier, I didn't double-check any of this, but the person who explained the song to me is reliable and I'm very sure that he's right about this.


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PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012 6:37 pm 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
I haven't researched this at all, so I can only let you know what I was told by the person who taught me the song. He said that the "seanduine" is the youngest boy in the family of the person who is singing the song; so the singer is being ironic when he refers to the small boy as "seanduine". In the old days, most young kids didn't wear shoes very much, so their feet would get washed before they went to bed. The "braon" is milk of course – NOT whisky :) As I mentioned earlier, I didn't double-check any of this, but the person who explained the song to me is reliable and I'm very sure that he's right about this.

Thanks, WFM.

Like most poetry, I think this is open to a lot of interpretation. Each song can mean a different thing to the particular singer. (But after years of reading dubious explanations in Irish sleeve notes and listening to Séamas Ennis bullshit his way through many an explanation, I've learned not to take any one explanation as gospel when it comes to Irish music. :LOL: )

As a lullaby, I think this is referring to milk, yes, but all of the images have double-meanings and the allusion and imagery is also to an old man, a wake, and whiskey. Therein lies the "device" or "joke", if you will. Like all poetry, each explanation can be correct in its own way and none is ever really perfect in itself.

How would you translate blais féin yourself? (and does it make sense to you without the object é after it?)

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012 7:30 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Like most poetry, I think this is open to a lot of interpretation. Each song can mean a different thing to the particular singer. (But after years of reading dubious explanations in Irish sleeve notes and listening to Séamas Ennis bullshit his way through many an explanation, I've learned not to take any one explanation as gospel when it comes to Irish music. :LOL: )

As a lullaby, I think this is referring to milk, yes, but all of the images have double-meanings and the allusion and imagery is also to an old man, a wake, and whiskey. Therein lies the "device" or "joke", if you will. Like all poetry, each explanation can be correct in its own way and none is ever really perfect in itself.

How would you translate blais féin yourself? (and does it make sense to you without the object é after it?)

I think you're right; this song could very well have a double meaning.

As for the blais féin part, I'll leave that one to the more fluent speakers around here.


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PostPosted: Wed 28 Nov 2012 11:10 pm 
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I finally tracked down my copy of A stór is a stóirín and can see that Pádraigín Ní Uallacháin also has blais féin on the second line of the first verse line in Irish, though the rest of the line is different from Iarla's version. She translates blais féin as "taste it yourself."

Is blais usually pronounced /bLaus´/ (rhymes with "stoush") in West Muskerry? Babhais would make more sense but Iarla definitely pronounces an L there. :??:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Thu 29 Nov 2012 12:37 am 
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Breandán wrote:
I finally tracked down my copy of A stór is a stóirín and can see that Pádraigín Ní Uallacháin also has blais féin on the second line of the first verse line in Irish, though the rest of the line is different from Iarla's version. She translates blais féin as "taste it yourself."

I was taught that blais féin means "have a taste yourself". Maybe that would explain why there is no object, but like I said, I'd rather leave that for the fluent speakers around here to explain.

Breandán wrote:
Is blais usually pronounced /bLaus´/ (rhymes with "stoush") in West Muskerry? Babhais would make more sense but Iarla definitely pronounces an L there. :??:

I'm sure Iarla is pronouncing blais the way that it is normally pronounced in Múscraí; at least, that's the way I learned it anyway.

er … No comment on the idea of babhais making MORE sense than the word blais in this song :D


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PostPosted: Thu 29 Nov 2012 10:37 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Is blais usually pronounced /bLaus´/ (rhymes with "stoush") in West Muskerry? Babhais would make more sense but Iarla definitely pronounces an L there.

Ah, now I see what you mean about the pronunciation of blais. I didn't understand what you meant by "stoush" (I'd never heard of such a word before, much less the pronunciation) but I gave the song another listen after you and David pointed this out and now I see what you're getting at.


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PostPosted: Thu 29 Nov 2012 11:05 pm 
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WeeFalorieMan wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Is blais usually pronounced /bLaus´/ (rhymes with "stoush") in West Muskerry? Babhais would make more sense but Iarla definitely pronounces an L there.

Ah, now I see what you mean about the pronunciation of blais. I didn't understand what you meant by "stoush" (I'd never heard of such a word before, much less the pronunciation) but I gave the song another listen after you and David pointed this out and now I see what you're getting at.

"Stoush" was the only English word I could think of that rhymed but on looking up the dictionary it turns out to be Ozzie and NZ slang. It means "a fight or brawl" and (now that you have had a listen to the song again) rhymes with what Iarla sings. :winkgrin:

I take it your blais rhymes more with "clash" ("a fight or brawl" :LOL: ), does it?

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Thu 29 Nov 2012 11:42 pm 
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CaoimhínSF wrote:
According to Pádraigín Ní Uallacháin in her CD A stór is a stóirín, it's actually a Munster lullaby, with the "old man" being a [bald] baby. Here's what it says in the liner notes: Suantraí ón deisceart a tháinig ó Nóra Ní Loinnsigh, amhránaí ó Chórcaigh. Is ionnan an 'seanduine' agus an leanbh fireann is óige sa teach.

Páidrigín also uses an tseanduine, and she has a different 3rd verse:

Arán úr, arán úr, arán úr don tseanduine,
arán úr is braon sú 's é a thabhairt don tseanduine.


Her translation for bog braon is "warm drop", and I notice in FGB that bainne a bhogadh means "to warm, take the chill out of milk".


I don't know the song, but after hearing it I'm inclined to agree with Caoimhín and WFM.

These are just my thoughts ...

Iarla said too that it is a suantraí, so it is probably a song for a child about a child.

I think "súp" is "soup". That corresponds with Pádraigín's "sú", as that is the word used for soup in the North of Ireland.

Bog braon - is warm the milk. This is likely to be an older child, a toddler, not a nursing infant.
I don't know if the word at the end is "blais" but if it is it fits well with warming the milk and tasting it first to see if it's too hot before giving to the child.

It was common in the past for people to go barefoot, especially children. And feet would have to be washed every night.
There was a special saying/warning before throwing the dirty water out the door in case somebody was outside. :)

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