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 Post subject: in bhur
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 12:10 pm 
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'conas tá, just a quick question, i was flicking through Gaeilge gan stró and came across the section for "cónaí", it gives one example as tá sibh in bhur gcónaí .... is it just me or can you say "i bhur" ? or is that just wrong and in quick speech the "n" sound kind of gets lost? i only ask as ive been saying "i bhur" all these years

'maith agaibh


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 Post subject: Re: in bhur
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 12:15 pm 
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Cliathach wrote:
'conas tá, just a quick question, i was flicking through Gaeilge gan stró and came across the section for "cónaí", it gives one example as tá sibh in bhur gcónaí .... is it just me or can you say "i bhur" ? or is that just wrong and in quick speech the "n" sound kind of gets lost? i only ask as ive been saying "i bhur" all these years

'maith agaibh

AFAIK, in bhur is the grammatically correct form. You're right, in one sense, about the "n" tending to be dropped in speech, though in addition, it seems to be one of those errors that gets put in print quite often too.


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 Post subject: Re: in bhur
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 12:20 pm 
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Gumbi wrote:
AFAIK, in bhur is the grammatically correct form.
No, it's just the grammatically "standard" form, i.e., one of the correct forms. The others aren't standard but they aren't wrong either.

I wonder if it isn't a back formation from the (grammatically correct) Connemara form, which is ina and therefore has an n, though bhur is reduced to a. :dhera:

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: in bhur
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 1:18 pm 
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i causes eclipsis as I'm sure y'all know. b can be eclipsed, but not where there is a séimhiú there already. So what to do? Change it to in, of course!

That may not seem helpful, but i changes to in elsewhere, where an urú is possible in theory except that there are exceptional circumstances.

in Carlisle (before a placename which is not Gaeilge).
in Peig (a title such as the name of a book).
in dhá (like bhur, this word is unusual in having a séimhiú in the first place. I've heard it said 'i ndhá' roughly pronounced i ngaw and i naw, for that matter, but obviously you couldn't have both a séimhiú and an urú on a word.)


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 Post subject: Re: in bhur
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 1:27 pm 
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Quote:
'conas tá, just a quick question, i was flicking through Gaeilge gan stró and came across the section for "cónaí", it gives one example as tá sibh in bhur gcónaí .... is it just me or can you say "i bhur" ? or is that just wrong and in quick speech the "n" sound kind of gets lost? i only ask as ive been saying "i bhur" all these years


in Standard Irish, they have chosen to write "in bhur". I don't know why:

Ulster people say "i(n) mur"
Connemara people say "ina"
Munster people say "in úr"

and in your sentence:
U: Tá sibh 'mur gcónaí
C: Tá sib 'na gcónaí
M: Tánn sibh 'n úr gcónaí

the mysteries of Standard Irish... :darklaugh:

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 Post subject: Re: in bhur
PostPosted: Sat 16 Jun 2012 6:44 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
the mysteries of Standard Irish...
What an excellent suggestion for a book title! :mrgreen:

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