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 Post subject: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 8:11 am 
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I just wanted to ask a question, a relatively simple thing that I think I'm still getting wrong.
Basically what is the strength of the emphatic particles, for instance what is the difference between:

Ar mhúinteoir tusa?
and
Ar mhúinteoir tú?

I know the first is more emphatic, but how much more?

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 Post subject: Re: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 9:56 am 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
I just wanted to ask a question, a relatively simple thing that I think I'm still getting wrong.
Basically what is the strength of the emphatic particles, for instance what is the difference between:

Ar mhúinteoir tusa?
and
Ar mhúinteoir tú?

I know the first is more emphatic, but how much more?

I think what is being emphasised may be different.

Ar mhúinteoir thú? Are you a _teacher_? (not a student, etc.)

Ar mhúinteoir thusa? Are _you_ a teacher? (I can't believe the riffraff they let teach nowadays. :rolleyes: )

But await further input ... :bolt:


Ar is the present tense of the copula in Connemara, the past is An mba.

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
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 Post subject: Re: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 11:33 am 
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I like Breandán's explanation, although I only really know the standard version (An múinteoir tú?).

I can't really see a context where the question needs emphasis other than the 'riff raff' example.

I wonder how a Gaeltacht person might ask the question in real life. Would it be something like this perhaps in Conamara?

Múinteoir thú - arb ea? (so it's a teacher y'are, is it? I think I've been watching too many Oirish films!)


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 Post subject: Re: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 12:04 pm 
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Quote:
† Ar is the present tense of the copula in Connemara, the past is An mba.


But does "ar" lenite when it's in the present tense?
Isn't it "ar múinteoir thú"?


"Ar múinteoir thusa?" means roughly "and you, are you a teacher?" or "concerning yourself, are you a teacher?". You'd ask that question after someone else said what was his job.

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 Post subject: Re: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 2:18 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
† Ar is the present tense of the copula in Connemara, the past is An mba.


But does "ar" lenite when it's in the present tense?
Isn't it "ar múinteoir thú"?


"Ar múinteoir thusa?" means roughly "and you, are you a teacher?" or "concerning yourself, are you a teacher?". You'd ask that question after someone else said what was his job.


That's how I learned it.

"Is múinteoir mé. Ar/an múinteoir thusa?" I'm a teacher. Are YOU a teacher?

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 2:20 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
† Ar is the present tense of the copula in Connemara, the past is An mba.
I was about to ask about that and then reread the post. You regularly anticipate questions and problems and address them in advance, a Bhreandáin. Iontach ar fad. Grma. :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 2:34 pm 
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So there is always an implied contrast in a way, thanks everybody!
i.e. Were you a teacher?, following on from something previously mentioned.

That makes the copula pretty clear, what about the subject of a verb?
So the difference between:

Dúart-sa léi gur dea-dhuine thú
and
Dúart léi gur dea-dhuine thú

Is it just emphasis here?

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 Post subject: Re: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 8:18 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
† Ar is the present tense of the copula in Connemara, the past is An mba.


But does "ar" lenite when it's in the present tense?
Isn't it "ar múinteoir thú"?


"Ar múinteoir thusa?" means roughly "and you, are you a teacher?" or "concerning yourself, are you a teacher?". You'd ask that question after someone else said what was his job.


That's how I learned it.

"Is múinteoir mé. Ar/an múinteoir thusa?" I'm a teacher. Are YOU a teacher?

Redwolf

As always, there can be more than one interpetation and context is the decider. Redwolf and Lughaidh's interpretation is more common following on from another sentence.

The structure can also be used to express surprise, especially when there is no preceding statement to contrast. Ar thusa Máirtín? "Are you Máirtín?" (My, how you've changed! How different you are from what I imagined.)

An Lon Dubh wrote:
So there is always an implied contrast in a way, thanks everybody!
i.e. Were you a teacher?, following on from something previously mentioned.

That makes the copula pretty clear, what about the subject of a verb?
So the difference between:

Dúart-sa léi gur dea-dhuine thú
and
Dúart léi gur dea-dhuine thú

Is it just emphasis here?

:yes: Use of -sa/-se tends to be more contrastive than emphatic. Emphasis is better achieved by fronting.

Dúart-sa léi gur dea-dhuine thú "_I_ told her that you are a good person" (in contrast to others, who didn't say so.)
and
Dúart léi gur dea-dhuine thú "I told her that you are a good person" (unmarked)

Dúart léi gur dea-dhuine thusa "I told her that _you_ are a good person" (in contrast to others, who aren't so good/nice.)

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Being emphatic.
PostPosted: Tue 05 Jun 2012 9:08 pm 
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Go raibh míle maith agat, a Bhreadáin! Níl agam ach aon cheist amháin eile, ach tosnód nua-snáithe
mar gheall air.

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