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 Post subject: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 9:42 am 
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I've just seen on another forum that for eighty - which I always thought was ochtó - it is more traditional to say - ceithre fichid (according to Gumbi). It's the first time I've seen that, so do you use the base twenty (a score) for other numbers? Is it a French influence?


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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 10:22 am 
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I think it is falling into disuse but this is how I learnt it for Connemara Irish:

20 boats fiche bád
30 boats deich mbád is fiche
40 boats dhá fhichead bád
50 boats leathchéad bád
60 boats trí fichid bád
70 boats deich mbád is trí fichid
80 boats cheithre fichid bád
90 boats deich mbád is cheithre fichid

21 boats bád is fiche
31 boats aon bhád déag is fiche

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 11:42 am 
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Quote:
It's the first time I've seen that, so do you use the base twenty (a score) for other numbers? Is it a French influence?


no, counting on a 20 basis is a typical Celtic feature, and if you say "quatre-vingts" in French, it's because of the influence of Gaulish (they say, and actually it must be true since in Latin you don't), not the other way round :-)

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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 12:36 pm 
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Yes I'm sure that's true - it's simply that it's first I've seen of it in Irish. Obviously you know better than I do that it's a similar situation (counting in twenty's) in Breton, though I was never quite sure whether it was due to French influence or not. A long time ago I was explaining how to count from one to twenty in Welsh to a Breton friend, when he pointed out something that I hadn't realised up till then - that it must be based on or influenced by Roman numerals - though I see that there again, counting in Welsh has since been simplified.
PS I was once operated on in the Quinze-Vingts Eye Hospital (which for those who might not know, was the name of a regiment - and their barracks - in pre-Revolutionary Paris).


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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 2:06 pm 
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I think you have a stray "h" in eighty. it should be ceithre


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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 3:26 pm 
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Gumbi wrote:
I think you have a stray "h" in eighty. it should be ceithre

Not in Connemara Irish, as stated. ;)

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 4:02 pm 
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Quote:
Yes I'm sure that's true - it's simply that it's first I've seen of it in Irish. Obviously you know better than I do that it's a similar situation (counting in twenty's) in Breton, though I was never quite sure whether it was due to French influence or not.


it can't be, since in Breton we use it with 40, 60, 70, 80, 90 and sometimes even with bigger numbers (120 = c'hwec'h ugent = 6x20) in "archaic speech".

Quote:
A long time ago I was explaining how to count from one to twenty in Welsh to a Breton friend, when he pointed out something that I hadn't realised up till then - that it must be based on or influenced by Roman numerals - though I see that there again, counting in Welsh has since been simplified.


in Welsh there are several ways to count, on 10-basis, and on 20-basis.

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 6:07 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
cinnte tá, but what I meant was this -
un
dau
tri
pedwar
pump
chwech
saith
wyth (huit?)
naw
deg
and then it's -
un ar ddeg XI
deuddeg XII
tri ar ddeg XIII
pedwar ar ddeg XIIII
pymtheg XV
un ar bymtheg XVI
dau ar bymtheg XVII
deunaw 2x9
pedwar ar bymtheg XVIIII
ugain XX
but I'm not sure that they count like this anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 6:13 pm 
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Quote:
and then it's -
un ar ddeg XI
deuddeg XII
tri ar ddeg XIII
pedwar ar ddeg XIIII
pymtheg XV
un ar bymtheg XVI
dau ar bymtheg XVII
deunaw 2x9
pedwar ar bymtheg XVIIII
ugain XX
but I'm not sure that they count like this anymore.


yeah, sounds very exotic for Breton speakers, here everybody says
unnek
daouzek
trizek
pewarzek
pemzek
c'hwezek
seitek
triwec'h (one insular dialect has "eitek")
naondek/naontek
ugent

the only variations are in pronunciation but the numbers are always these.
it's funny to see that Welsh people have "deunaw" ie. 2x9 for 18 while we Breton speakers have triwec'h ie. 3x6 :)

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: Numbers
PostPosted: Thu 03 May 2012 8:17 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Gumbi wrote:
I think you have a stray "h" in eighty. it should be ceithre

Not in Connemara Irish, as stated. ;)

Oh. GRMA. That's interesting.


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