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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Wed 23 Apr 2025 10:28 am 
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Labhrás wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
https://www.canuint.ie/ga/OD016950_CD0135_23

Cogadh Cathartha - civil war - the speaker from CD who is interviewing the one from Muskerry pronounces this Coga Catharga. I think it should be Catharha, right?


They write cathardha which is an alternative version of cathartha.
/kahərgə/ is a plausible pronunciation. A lot of words with this ending are even usually written -ga (órga mar sh.)

There’s /gə/ here, too: https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fuaim/cogadh_cathartha


Part of the reason I don't like this pronunciation is that between r and g after a short vowel there should be an epenthetic vowel: kɑhərəgə. This doesn't apply after long vowels, so órga is fine. Measartha and athartha are other words sometimes written with -dha.

Shán Ó Cuív's Letiriú Shímplí version of Aithris ar Chríost transcribes measardha as measarga and measara in another passage, but the LS version of Catilína (by Osborn Bergin I think???) transcribes it as measarha. Maybe genuine variation is possible?


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Sat 17 May 2025 8:53 pm 
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Posts: 34
I remember someone making a post about this site when it was publicly released. I was so surprised, I hadn't a clue this was being brewed in the background, this is especially useful for those (like myself) who are learners and who focus their learning on native Irish speech thanks to the live subtitles.


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Sat 17 May 2025 8:54 pm 
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Posts: 34
beepbopboop wrote:
I have an unscientific theory about the phonetics of Irish r's which I'll ramble on about if anyone wants.


Yes I'd very much be interested!


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2025 5:57 pm 
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Posts: 13
Bainfead an-úsáid as, grma.


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Thu 31 Jul 2025 11:35 pm 
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beepbopboop wrote:
I have an unscientific theory about the phonetics of Irish r's which I'll ramble on about if anyone wants.

Beepbopboop, I would also be very interested in hearing about this, if you don't mind.


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug 2025 9:38 am 
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Posts: 27
This website is such an incredible resource but I am disappointed by the approach they've taken for the transcription, especially for the Ulster speakers. Whilst I don't take any issue with things like standard leag, ansin, or faoi spelled as leog, ansan, fá if that is what the speaker is saying, Irish spelling is already well suited enough to incorporate a wide variety of pronunciations and forms that are perfectly predictable from a single spelling.

Take this recording for example https://www.canuint.ie/ga/QQTRIN040192c1 where the transcriber has taken an extreme approach that ignores the orthography and creates new forms that they think better represent the pronunciation, which (in my opinion) shows a poor understanding of the language's orthography and phonology. A lot of the spellings are departing from existing orthographic conventions to tell the reader something that is perfectly predictable from the original spelling, like ceaun/ceann, thaul/thall, radhain/roinn, raudar/rabhadar, éadaig/éadaigh, maetha/maothadh, aun/aen/ann, fálthas/fáltas, lín/linn, beithíg/beithígh, treau/treabhadh, fearr/feár etc. Some of the respellings are completely redundant like changing go leor, leo → go leór, leó, changing ar → air or ag → a before a verbal noun.

Most of the glossing is also inconsistent and unnecessary. The vast majority of the glosses do not convey anything new or help understand the recordings in a way that isn't equally possible by simply listening to them.

I think the approach they should have taken is that of other similar projects, such as the Survey of English Dialects (SED, Orton and Dieth) and other dialect surveys, where the audio is presented with a text in normalised spelling that takes care to provide the relevant variant forms wherever necessary with a supplementary commentary noting anything interesting. In the example above, the text itself would still have fé, ana-chuid, dhearnadar, tailimh, anso but then for bhíodh sé it would be noted that the final -dh of verbs is pronounced ch /x/ and that this causes the pronouns sí/sé to assimilate to the broad quality of the ch and become saoi/sae or whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug 2025 9:49 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1725
baeris wrote:
This website is such an incredible resource but I am disappointed by the approach they've taken for the transcription, especially for the Ulster speakers. Whilst I don't take any issue with things like standard leag, ansin, or faoi spelled as leog, ansan, fá if that is what the speaker is saying, Irish spelling is already well suited enough to incorporate a wide variety of pronunciations and forms that are perfectly predictable from a single spelling.

Take this recording for example https://www.canuint.ie/ga/QQTRIN040192c1 where the transcriber has taken an extreme approach that ignores the orthography and creates new forms that they think better represent the pronunciation, which (in my opinion) shows a poor understanding of the language's orthography and phonology. A lot of the spellings are departing from existing orthographic conventions to tell the reader something that is perfectly predictable from the original spelling, like ceaun/ceann, thaul/thall, radhain/roinn, raudar/rabhadar, éadaig/éadaigh, maetha/maothadh, aun/aen/ann, fálthas/fáltas, lín/linn, beithíg/beithígh, treau/treabhadh, fearr/feár etc. Some of the respellings are completely redundant like changing go leor, leo → go leór, leó, changing ar → air or ag → a before a verbal noun.

Most of the glossing is also inconsistent and unnecessary. The vast majority of the glosses do not convey anything new or help understand the recordings in a way that isn't equally possible by simply listening to them.

I think the approach they should have taken is that of other similar projects, such as the Survey of English Dialects (SED, Orton and Dieth) and other dialect surveys, where the audio is presented with a text in normalised spelling that takes care to provide the relevant variant forms wherever necessary with a supplementary commentary noting anything interesting. In the example above, the text itself would still have fé, ana-chuid, dhearnadar, tailimh, anso but then for bhíodh sé it would be noted that the final -dh of verbs is pronounced ch /x/ and that this causes the pronouns sí/sé to assimilate to the broad quality of the ch and become saoi/sae or whatever.


I like the respellings, as they highlight things many people would miss. Many learners do say "ag deanamh' with a g...


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug 2025 9:53 am 
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They're definitely making more of an effort with the dialects than they used to - go back 10 years and everyone was insistent that the CO was the only thing worth learning.


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 Post subject: Re: canúint.ie
PostPosted: Tue 05 Aug 2025 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1966
Respellings are shown in maps so you can see where else e.g. "ceaun" is used.
https://www.canuint.ie/ga/cuardach?t=ceann"


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