It is currently Thu 16 Apr 2026 3:54 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2025 1:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1725
There are nouns in Munster Irish that were spelt -adh or -ódh in the older script that become -aidh and -óidh in the genitive. Some of them do not have an audible slender g, and others do. This suggests, for example, that a word like ampladh (original spelling) has been reinterpreted as ampla, and so the genitive is ampla.

Here is a list of them. There may be more. The following are the correct genitives (note in particular: toraidh, ionaidh and madraidh do not have audible slender g endings, and so the following spellings are advisable in the genitive):

ampla
baiste
barra-thuisle
bíobha
camra
cré
(traditionally written créidh)
fógra
iolra
iúnadh
lonnra
madra
masla
peaca
rabhadh?
( I don't think rabhaidh has a slender g, but I lack examples)
scannradh
toradh


These have a slender g in the genitive (some are attested with and without):
adhnóidh
annróidh
bídh
bloscaidh
bua/buaidh
casadh/casaidh
céimaghráidh
(the gs of céimaghrá, adapted from the English "chimera")
ceóigh
cogaidh
cómhráidh
curaidh
? ("warrior"; I'm not sure here, though, about the slender g)
deiridh
duaidh?
(I'm not sure here)
duibh-réidh
gaorthaidh
geímhridh
gleóigh
margaidh
páigh
sáigh
(gs of sá, "saw")
samhraidh
slabhra/slabhraidh
sneachtaidh
súigh
troscaidh


Last edited by djwebb2021 on Wed 21 May 2025 3:31 am, edited 11 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2025 3:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 701
Location: Denver, Colorado
One might also venture so far as to call some of these fifth declension nouns (though fifth declension nouns are most often characterised by a broad ending in the genitive), as historically certain words that did not have a final dh take the slender g ending. This happened due to analogy of the other nouns.

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2025 3:10 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1725
Wouldn't that make them 4th declension?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2025 3:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 701
Location: Denver, Colorado
Fourth declension = nominative is the same as genitive

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2025 3:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 02 Nov 2023 11:42 pm
Posts: 701
Location: Denver, Colorado
At least in traditional grammar

_________________
I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 21 May 2025 3:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1725
I've added some more in: sneachta, ceó, gleó, pá and sú.

There is an awkwardness in the spelling. Some are spelt -idh and some spelt -igh above. I'm basically keeping an eye on the spellings already used in Muskerry dialectal literature. And I think monosyllable nouns with a long vowel in the nominative singular like ceó and pá tend to become ceóigh and páigh. Ultimately it doesn't matter - it's more a case of establishing orthographical rules.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 16 Jun 2025 1:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1725
Let me add to the list spriocadh, which is identical in the genitive. FGB has sprioctha in the genitive, which is pronounced the same, and so amounts to the same thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 149 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group