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 Post subject: Confused about PUL
PostPosted: Tue 26 Dec 2023 7:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed 20 Sep 2023 9:13 pm
Posts: 171
Peadar Ua Laoghaire of course strongly opposed invented Irish and things like that. However, he passed away in 1920. I didn't think the whole making up of Irish was started back then. Was it something other than the modern problem that we have now with the Coiste Téarmaíochta that he opposed?
I am thinking it had something to do with them trying to bring back Classical Gaelic? Is it that the "highly standardised" (as described somewhere I read) Classical Gaelic also made up in some aspects as the Caighdeán Oifigiúil of its day, or was it merely that he opposed the unnaturalness of forcefully bringing back a form of Irish that naturally died when Gaedhealthacht Irish was still alive?
If anyone can answer any one of these, it'd be greatly appreciated, and it doesn't matter English or Irish.


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 Post subject: Re: Confused about PUL
PostPosted: Tue 26 Dec 2023 8:17 pm 
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'Sea 'nois, is dócha go raibh an "invented rubbish", an tseafóid a bheadh ceapaithe suas ag foghlamóiríbh, i bhfad níos feárr agus níos nádúrtha mar theangain ná an tseafóid nua atá ann an lá 'thá 'niubh ann. Tá an rud so a' dul i ndonas le gach bliain. 1) Do bhí daoine ann, agus dob í Gaelainn Chlasaiceach Chéitinn a chuiridís chun cínn. 2) Agus má tá féin, do bhí daoine eile ann leis, agus do cheapaidis na focail nua agus na rialacha gramadúla gan puínn tuiscint' ar a' dteangain - agus do chaithidís ar leataoibh daoine mar PUL go raibh eólas níos cruinne acu ar a' nGaelainn. Táim a' cuímneamh ar rudaí mar sin do scríbh an tAthair Peadair:

1. "Géarleanmhaint is not a natural Irish word. It was "built" recently on the model of the English word "persecution" or the Latin word persecutio, and it means merely "following sharply." If a native Irish speaker wished to say that someone was persecuting him, he would say tá sé am' chrádh, or am' chiapadh, or tá sé ag cur orm, or tá sé am' mhilleadh, or táim marbh aige, etc".

2. "The word feallsamhnacht is absurd Irish for "philosophy," unless the intention were to signify that philosophy and falsehood are the same".

3. "Such expressions as ceist na talmhan, ceist an chíosa, ceist an ólacháin, etc., are all wrong. Irish Speakers never use the word ceist in this way. It is a purely English mode both of thought and of expression. The words gnó, cúrsaí, sgéal, are the words used; e.g. gnó na mbárd, the business of the bards, the question regarding the bards. One may of course say, cé leis an talamh? Siní an cheist, but there is no such thing as ceist na talmhan".

4. "Macsamhail (pronounced macasamhail or macshamhail), a copy. M. leabhair; m. eochrach, etc. Macleabhar is also used for a copy of a book. I have never heard the word cóip used except in a disparaging sense for "a class of people." An chóip means "that vile lot," "that low class." Formerly sliocht an leabhair was used to express "a copy of the book." "

5. "The Usages of a language are matters of far greater importance than grammar to the life of a language. The sentence "these things is" is very bad English grammar, but it is correct Greek.
Why is míle púnt meághchaint correct? Why not meághchainte? One might as well ask, why is "1,000 lbs. weight" correct, and "1,000 lbs. of weight" wrong".

6. "1. Na gníomhartha a bhí 'á ndéanamh acu. 2. Na gníomhartha a bhí acu 'á dhéanamh. Both constructions are correct. All depends on where the word acu is placed. In No. 1. we must say 'á ndéanamh. In No. 2. we must say 'á dhéanamh. But why? Simply because that is the usage of Irish speech, and usage goes before grammar".

7. "Cad é an tslighe, cad é an áit, are what is said. Not cad í an tslighe, etc., though the words are feminine".

Tá a lán nithe mar sin 'na shaothar - agus a lán díobh bailithe i leabhairín dár teideal "Notes on Irish Words and Usages". Do thug sé fé ndeara go raibh a' teanga a' dul fé smacht coistí foghlamóiri i mBleá Cliath, agus ná raibh puínn suime acu súd san eólas a bhí aige féin ar a' dteangain. Ach, gan dabht, do bhí a' Ghaelainn nua, ceapaithe suas, lena línn níos cóngaraí do theanga na Gaelthachta ná mar atá si anois...


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 Post subject: Re: Confused about PUL
PostPosted: Wed 27 Dec 2023 1:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed 20 Sep 2023 9:13 pm
Posts: 171
GRMMA tuigim anois.


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