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 Post subject: Fairy Stories
PostPosted: Wed 06 Apr 2016 4:18 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
I've managed to get hold of Scéalta Sí by no less than Sinéad de Valera (ISBN 978 0 9535 8368 3). But I'm very disappointed to find that she wrote her stories in English and that this a translation back into Irish. Not only that, in the Irish version, they haven't said which stories in the original they have translated - what's more is that most of her books are out of print, unavailable and the few that are available, are up for sale at prices much too high.

What are the English titles of - Cailleach an Aitinn and An Garraíodóir Aisteach ? Would these English titles that I've translated into Irish be as follows ?

The Magic Girdle - An Crios Draíochta

The Miser's Gold - Ór an Sprionlóra

The Stolen Child - An Páiste Goidte

The Four-Leaved Shamrock - in the dictionary this is given as Seamar Mhuire, does that mean that it's in the plural ? so with the definite article, is it - An tSeamar Mhuire or Na Seamar Mhuire ?

The Well at the End of the World - Tobar ar dheireadh an Domhain

You might like to know that there is a glossary/gluais at the back in Irish where they explain words or groups of words in bold print in the text.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairy Stories
PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr 2016 11:10 am 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
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Location: 91 - France
I've managed to get hold of her second volume - More Irish Fairy Tales, which is where some of these stories come from. The two titles in Irish that I wasn't too sure about are 'The Furze Witch' and 'The Strange Gardener'.


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 Post subject: Re: Fairy Stories
PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr 2016 8:49 pm 
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Nuair a bhí mé in ollscoil Chúil Raithin, tháinig mé ar an leabhar "Síscéalta ó Thír Chonaill", le Seán Ó hEochaidh, ach chan fhuair mé in áit ar bith eile í. Tá aithreachas orm nach dtearr mé fótachóip daoithe nuair a bhí mé thall...

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 Post subject: Re: Fairy Stories
PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr 2016 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
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Lughaidh wrote:
Nuair a bhí mé in ollscoil Chúil Raithin, tháinig mé ar an leabhar "Síscéalta ó Thír Chonaill", le Seán Ó hEochaidh, ach chan fhuair mé in áit ar bith eile í. Tá aithreachas orm nach dtearr mé fótachóip daoithe nuair a bhí mé thall...


Comhairle Bhéaloideas Éireann really, really needs to republish those works: Leabhar Sheáin Í Chonaill is another example which badly needs to be republished, as well Scéalaíocht Amhlaoibh Í Luínse. Its killing me! There is a copy of L. Seáin Í Chonaill on Amazon at the moment but the seller wants a ridiculous price for it (He/ she clearly knows how valuable it is).

Seanachas ó Chairbre II needs to be edited in line with the first volume (don't change the modus operandi as laid out by Duillearga and the two Cróinín brothers- it was amazing how the represented the spoken language in writing. Please, Please! don't do what Máirtín Verling did with Leabhar Mhaidhc Dháith - semi-standardising the text - which detracted somewhat from what was a colossal effort on his part and those that helped him.

Cian

PS. Speaking of studies of folklore, you might be interested in this Lughaidh: Sgéalta Mhuintir Luinigh/Munterloney Folktales: Published in Autumn 2015 (Béaloideas Thír Eoghain)

http://comhairlebheal.ie/news.html

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(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Fairy Stories
PostPosted: Mon 11 Apr 2016 11:45 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
I've managed to get hold of Scéalta Sí by no less than Sinéad de Valera (ISBN 978 0 9535 8368 3). But I'm very disappointed to find that she wrote her stories in English and that this a translation back into Irish. Not only that, in the Irish version, they haven't said which stories in the original they have translated - what's more is that most of her books are out of print, unavailable and the few that are available, are up for sale at prices much too high.


Well that's kinda shit, Excusez mon français (excuse my awful French) :).

Why would someone want to translate folklore that's in English into Irish when there is an absolute treasure trove of folkloric materials in Irish? You are never going to capture the unique turn-of-phrase that the Irish-speaking story teller - or any original language of the story teller for that matter - in translation.

Franc, since you are interested in Munster Irish and story-telling, I would highly recommend getting - if you haven't gotten them already - either Seanachas ó Chairbre I or Leabhar Stiofáin Uí Ealaoire. Those two books are wonderful for their stories. For instance in Stiofáin Ó Ealaoire's tale Baiste Fhínn, a story describing Finn's childhood, how he gained his fios and became leader of the Fíanna. The story pattern itself roughly follows the 12th/11th century composition Macgnímartha Finn. It blends Greek and Irish mythology seamlessly. However, there are elements of the story - such as Finn and his foster mother living in the hollow of a tree in order to escape Finn's enemies who are trying to kill him - to be found in a 14th poem which is another version of the Macgnímartha type.

This sounds weird and sad, but I like to listen to recordings of Stiofáin Ó hEalaoire (hEilíre) first on Doegen, to get the rhythm and sound of his voice in my head; and then I turn to his book with a nice drink and imagine that Stiofán himself is telling me the stories.

franc 91 wrote:
What are the English titles of - Cailleach an Aitinn and An Garraíodóir Aisteach ? Would these English titles that I've translated into Irish be as follows ?


Cailleach an Aitinn 'The Hag of the Furze' (Furze = type of bush)
Garraíodóir Aisteach 'The Strange Gardener'

franc 91 wrote:
The Magic Girdle - An Crios Draíochta

The Miser's Gold - Ór an Sprionlóra


:good:

franc 91 wrote:
The Stolen Child - An Páiste Goidte


This tale type is usually referred as: An páiste/ Leanbh a f(h)úadaíog (fuadaíodh)

fuadaíodh = fuadaig: http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/fuadaigh

Quote:
The Four-Leaved Shamrock - in the dictionary this is given as Seamar Mhuire, does that mean that it's in the plural ? so with the definite article, is it - An tSeamar Mhuire or Na Seamar Mhuire ?


An tSeamar Mhuire, I think you may be confusing the English plural with the Irish singular: http://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/seamair

Quote:
The Well at the End of the World - Tobar ar dheireadh an Domhain


I would have said Tobar ag Deireadh an Domhain, but sometimes ag and ar can be interchangeable, so I'm not sure about ar D(h)eireadh.

Cian

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: Fairy Stories
PostPosted: Tue 12 Apr 2016 9:51 am 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 1995
Location: 91 - France
Go raibh maith agaibh go léir.
I do find it quite frustrating that there is so much storytelling that has been written down in Irish is not available either on-line or published. Apparently there was a move early in the 19th century to translate back into Irish stories that had been collected by people like Thomas Crofton Croker. Even today I have the feeling that Irish folktales are published more often in English than in Irish, I imagine it's a question of knowing where your market is. Even Eddie Lenihan publishes his books in English, why I don't know. I can well imagine that storytelling of Irish tales in Irish would be far more vibrant and compelling than it could ever be in English.

If you want to judge the Irish translation, here are two examples -

The Disguised Princess/An Banphrionsa i mBréagriocht

Princess Eithne lived in a fine palace with her mother, Queen Rose, and her stepfather King Conal. Eithne disliked her stepfather very much because he was a harsh and cruel man.

Bhí an Banphrionsa Eithne ina cónaí i bpálás breá lena máthair, an Bhanríon Róis, agus a leasathair, an Rí Conall. Ní raibh dúil ar bith aici ina leasathair mar duine dúr cruálach a bhí ann.

(taken from The King of Ireland's Son/Mac Rí na hÉireann (cuid 1)/Le fils du Roi d'Irlande - Pádraic Colum)

Fedelma the Enchanter's Daughter/Feidilm, Iníon an Draoi/Fedelma la fille de l'Enchanteur

Bhí sin ann, agus is fada ó bhí, bhí Rí ar Éirinn darbh ainm Conall. Bhí triúr mac aige, agus dála mar gheibh tú crainn chama sa choillidh i measc na gcrann díreach, bhí ógánach acu chomh crosta sin agus gurbh éigean don Rí agus dá Chomhairleoir fá dheireadh é a ligean lena olc féin. Ba é seo an mac ba sine ag an Rí, agus fuair a mhátair bás sul a dtáinig sé san aois le múnadh a fhoghlaim uaithi.

Connal (sic) was the name of the King who ruled over Ireland at that time. He had three sons, and, as fir trees grow, some crooked and some straight, one of them grew up so wild that in the end the King and the King's Councillor had to let him have his own way in everything. This youth was the King's eldest son and his mother had died before she could be a guide to him.

Le Roi qui régnait sur l'Irlande à cette époque s'appelait Connal (sic). Il avait trois fils. L'un d'eux, comme les sapins qui poussent les uns courbés, les autres droits, devint si sauvage que le Roi et le Conseiller du Roi finirent par lui laisser faire tout ce qu'il voulait. Ce garçon était le fils aîné du Roi et sa mère était morte avant de pouvoir le guider.

Pádraic Colum said that when he was in America, he didn't want to lose his Irish, so he translated these stories from an Irish text that he had with him, the big question is - which Irish text was he using and where is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Fairy Stories
PostPosted: Thu 30 Jan 2020 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 1995
Location: 91 - France
You might like to know that Coiscéim have now published a new edition of Mac Rí na hÉireann by Padraic Colum which is available from Litríocht.ie and An Siopa Leabhar.


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