"Too gay". Was men sleeping with other men somewhat commonplace then? Was it not pure taboo?

Or is that view primarily as a result of more recent religions (Christianity in Ireland etc.).

Christianity ruined everything, especially for women.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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It's really a result of the native Irish church losing influence after the 12th century as An Cionnfhaolach said. To give you
an idea of what the church was like, I'm descended from a Bishop who had fifteen children.

The church prior to the 12th century was a very different organisation.
The text proscribing the correct price for rent boys that I mentioned above was written by monks in a monastery.


I'll gather some of the interesting Brehon laws concerning women and post them here if you are interested.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

That would be great thanks !

I have a vague idea of them. I know women had more rights, in owning property, marriage etc.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
___________________________________________________________

Cool, some of them are a great laugh, I'll post them up later today.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

ya the Irish church was definitely a place where you could have your cake and eat it, and they had lots of cake. As regards homosexuality, in many warrior-societies, such as the Spartans, homosexuality was common practice. It was used to build bonds with other men and to scratch an itch .

Seriously though the dalta or the fosterling would have probably had an awful time. In the original stories about Cúchulainn the boys would play at mutual striping and Cúchulainn was able to strip all the boys before they could even remove his brooch.

In Sparta it was illegal to have sex with a boy younger than 11 or 12, actually severe punishment was handed down if you did. After the age of 12 you were considered an adult. I am not sure about the age of consent in ancient Ireland. But I do know to be considered a man you had to be able to grow a beard. In one story Cúchulainn put on a fake beard (I can't remember with what) in order to fight some warrior because the warrior would not fight him as he was only a boy and to do so was dishonourable.

Cian

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Ya, apparently it was a vary serious crime to deny someone your hospitality (as seen in Loinges Mac nUislenn when Fergus was unable to accompany Naoise (Naoisiu) and his brothers from Alba to Ireland as conchobair invited him to a feast). And people hated receiving presents because you always had to give something bigger and better back in return or you owed them a favour. I think this trait was in Fled Bricreann (Fleadh Bhricreann).

some of them sound really fair too;

Apparently, a wife could divorce a man if he spoke publicly about how good/ bad she was at you know what.

Cian

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So:

1. A woman could be a bard. Being known as a Banfhili.

2. Rape or kissing a woman against her will carried equally harsh penalties. The price was the "Honour price" plus the "body fine". The Honour price being the payment for damaging the honour of her legal superior (could be a husband, son or guardian), it depended on the rank in society of this superior. The "body fine" was a fixed penalty for the most damaging harm to the body, another offences which required the body fine was murder.
Groping only cost about a half of the body fine, with no honour price.

3. A woman who wrote satirical poetry lost her honour price. She also loses her right to "sick-maintenance". Sick-maintenance was if somebody injured you and you were still alive nine days later, they had to take you the house of a third person and pay them until you recovered. They also had to make sure that while you were recovering that nobody played games in the house and no children were disciplined in it and no pigs squealed or dogs barked.
A female satirical poet lost all of these rights and was to be treated, apparently, on equal status with a female werewolf!

4. The first wife was permitted to inflict any non-lethal injury for up to three days after her husbands marriage to the new wife. The other wife is only allowed scratch, bite or be insulting in retaliation.

5. A woman who murders or commits arson is left at sea with one paddle. Men were killed as punishment for murder, either by hanging, being stabbed or being put in a pit and left to starve.

6. A woman's testimony in court was considered invalid being "biased and dishonest". Only a few exceptions were allowed. If she was a nun her word was considered to counteract a priest. On sexual matters a woman's word was consider totally conclusive, that is if they exam another woman for evidence of sexual problems their verdict is absolute and cannot be contradicted by anybody, even the husband.

7. If a man rejects his wife in favour of another woman, she is entitled to stay in his house for as long as she wants.

8. A woman is entitled to divorce if:
(a) Her husband seduced her through sorcery.
(b) If her husband if he cannot get an erection (Literal quote "For an impotent man is not easy for a wife") or if he is sterile.
(c) If he is in a holy order.
(d) If he sleeps too frequently with boys
(e) If he tells people about what they do in the bedroom

9. A man is entitled to divorce if his wife:
(a) Is a thief.
(b) Brings shame on his honour.
(c) Smothers a child or has an abortion
(d) Is too sick to breast feed

10. A woman is equally entitled to inherit her father's possessions but not his land, unless she has no brothers. Her own property she is completely entitled to, but woman cannot possess land except that inherit from their father in the circumstances above.

11. If a woman marries a man without land or a man from another túath tribe she is legally the husband.

12. A high value was placed on the pledge (money guaranteeing that a contract will be upheld) of a queen, being equal to that of a doctor (second only to a king or high-ranking bard).

13. A female embroiderer's needle has the highest interest rate of any item bar a king's possessions.

Hope that's interesting.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

"Too gay" a person who is not a husband type. He can be a companion with women.