Hello!! This is my first time posting. It's been years since I last studied Irish, so I'm having to start more or less from scratch. Please bear with me.

My question is in relation to the following sentence: Action group calling on Foras na Gaeilge to reconsider Board decision

And here it is in Irish: Grúpa gníomhartha ag iarraidh ar Fhoras na Gaeilge athmhachnamh a dhéanamh ar chinneadh an Bhoird

What I wasn't sure of was the word 'gníomhartha' which, as far as I can tell, is the plural of 'gníomh'. Can anyone help explain why the plural form would be used in this context?

Many thanks.

Well, it appears to be genitive plural there - group of actions. Although "action group" - both the concept itself and the suggested translation grúpa gníomhartha - seems to be just English in Irish drag.

The whole sentence is just English in Irish drag - including the ag iarraidh - with no proleptic pronoun.

focloir.ie suggests grúpa gníomhaíochta - but I simply don't know if this phrase occurs in natural Gaeltacht speech. If it does, it is a good word to use - otherwise, once again, English in Irish drag.

grúpa gníomhaíochta chun Béarlachas a choimeád beó? Could be a one possible title?

I'll make note of this. Thank you.

Welcome aboard, taibhse. Tá fáilte romhat!

I'd say that 'gníomhaíochta' or 'gníomhaireachta' is probably what was intended. It seems to me (in English and in Irish) to be more like a heading for a newspaper piece or internet story than an actual sentence. There is obviously a 'tá' missing at the start if making a sentence was the intention.

I don't know if this will satisfy patrickj though!

I take his point to an extent. My motto when translating is to try to translate the meaning rather than the words. Also, don't complicate things when there is a simple solution. So, what exactly is an 'action group', can anyone tell me? To make a sentence I'd be inclined to just write:
Tá grúpa ag iarraidh ar Fhoras na Gaeilge athmhachnamh a dhéanamh ar chinneadh an Bhoird
or leave out the 'tá' if it is to be used 'headline' style.
I don't see anything wrong with that if somebody in the Gaeltacht or outside it wants to describe what is happening. Board meetings and decisions, rethinks etc are part of modern life within the Gaeltacht and outside it. While the language of An tOileánach is beautiful and we have a lot to learn from it, I think we can't confine the language to that either if it is to remain a viable, living relevant language. There must be room for both and we can only do our best to ensure that when new words and terms are needed in Irish that they keep the idiom and structure of the language as much as possible. That's my opinion anyway.

I suppose an action group are a group that wish to project themselves as not just being a 'talking shop'? Perhaps posters can suggest adjectives (keep it clean please ) to follow 'grúpa' in that case.

I think your question, taibhse, was more grammatical than anything else and thus, to finish on that point,
Gníomhaíochta is the genitive singular of gníomhaíocht
Gníomhaireachta is the genitive singular of gníomhaireacht
Their meanings are basically the same, covering 'activity' or 'performance' or 'agency'. I'm not sure that they (or action in English) bring very much to the table in this case. Maybe they are a community group which would translate as 'grúpa pobail'.

Now that you've started to post, taibhse, lean ort agus fáilte!

On second thoughts!
Maybe 'grúpa gníomhartha' is the best translation for an 'action group'!

Gníomhartha = actions and that is possibly what the group wants to project themselves as - a group of actions.
I still don't like the concept though - in English or in Irish - but maybe somebody can convince me.

So, to try to answer taibhse's question now, gníomhartha is in the plural but it would also be in the genitive, because the basic meaning is 'of actions'. Just because a word is in the singular in English doesn't mean that the Irish (or any other language) will automatically take that form. As I said in my last post - meaning is key. Word for word translation is a no-no!

Yup, one thing to bear in mind when translating from English is that while English doesn't have a true genitive, the so-called "classifier noun" or "adjectival noun" (the first of two in compounds like bread knife, letter box, toothbrush etc) is traditionally always singular*. The same is not always true of the equivalent in another language. So when translating into an Irish genitive you need to think about whether it has a singular meaning (eg fingernail: one finger, one nail) or a plural one (eg letterbox: one box, many letters).

* This is changing in modern English usage, particularly when the second word starts with an S (the "facilities services" department in many big companies, for example). However, the singular usage is still the most common.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

I hate the modern use of the word Action in the English language as often employed by corporate workers.

"Have you actioned that yet". "When will this be actioned."

Or a similar sentence of my managers once said "going forward this must be actioned ASAP" saying ASAP as a word rather than the individual letters.

Would hate to see Irish start using horrible clunky business terminology like this. But then I suppose some people will see it as proof that its a vibrant modern language when you are able to use it to effectively communicate the fact that you are a corporate tosser.

_________________
Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Hello, again. Thank you for the follow up analysis, everyone.

One thing I noticed, the site doesn't appear to have (unless I missed it ) a feature for following a thread via the account email. This would allow someone to be notified, with an alarm on their iPhone, if and when someone responds.

Thanks again.

We do have that function. When you post to a thread, there is a box that you can tick "Notify me when a reply is posted".

You can also set this as the default in your User Control Panel >> Board Preferences >> Edit posting defaults >> "Notify me upon replies by default: Yes".

Hope this helps.

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).