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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 2:14 pm 
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Mick wrote:
Luke Ó Scolaidhe wrote:
Ok... questions :D

Why Siadsan?

Tá siad ag roinnt = They are sharing
Tá siadsan ag roinnt = THEY are sharing

Your version is correct too, I just put more emphasis on the word "they."

Luke Ó Scolaidhe wrote:
Why 'Bí i do chailín maith anois'? Is this like Tá sí ina suí? She is sitting down, in otherwords she is immersed in HER action so 'i do chailín maith' is like 'be in your good girl mode'

I think your "good girl mode" is a great way to explain it.

Is cailín maith í = She is a good girl
Tá sí ina cailín maith = She is being a good girl/ She has become a good girl / She is now in good girl mode
Tá sí cailín maith / Bí cailín maith = Wrong verb

This is commonly referred to as a TSF error (Tá sé fear).

Is fear é = He is a man
Tá sé ina fhear = He has become a man, he is speaking as man, he is in man-mode
Tá sé fear = Wrong verb, the so-called TSF error

Luke Ó Scolaidhe wrote:
Why gur instead of go bhfuil?

Go bhfuil has no place here. You have used two different verbs: "go bhfuil" and "is" where only the verb "is" is relevant.

Tá a fhios agam. Is leatsa é. = I know. It's yours (two separate statements)
Tá a fhios agam gur leatsa é = I know that it is yours (one statement)

Is é = it is
Gur = that it is (I know that it is . . . / I heard that is it is . . . / I think that it is . . . etc.

"Gur" is another form of "is", used for these kind of sentences. I think these called relative clauses, or dependent clauses or something like that (I'm not good on grammar terminology).

(Edited to add in clearer examples)



Mar sin, 'Ceapaim go bfhuil tá sé deanach' agus 'Ceapaim gur ag éirí déanach anois'.

An bfhuil sé sin ceart?

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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 2:22 pm 
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Quote:
Would the Munster heads run the gen plural thru the possive adj, as in 'ag roinnt a mbréagán'. I recall seeing something like this in one of the 'Teanga Bheo' series, Corca Dhuibhne, I think, in something like 'ag tiomáint mo chairr'.


Spot on, Jay Bee. That's the only change I would make to your translation - thanks to Mick for the first version of course that you then developed on. Except, I don't believe that it's a Munster thing at all - 'ag roinnt a mbréagán' is grammatically correct (genitive plural) to my mind, no matter what 'canúint' you have. Also you could say 'ag roinnt a gcuid bréagán'.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 2:27 pm 
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Luke Ó Scolaidhe wrote:
Mar sin, 'Ceapaim go bfhuil tá sé deanach' agus 'Ceapaim gur ag éirí déanach anois'.

An bfhuil sé sin ceart?

Ceapaim go bhfuil sé déanach / Ceapaim go bhfuil sé ag éirí déanach

Go bhfuil and tá are different forms of the same verb. You don't need to repeat the verb.
Gur is a form of "is" and has nothing to do with tá/bhfuil. It's not needed here.

I recommend you take a look at this guide that one of our forum members wrote out. It explains the difference between tá and is, which seems to be something that's tripping you up.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1818

Muimhneach wrote:
Quote:
Would the Munster heads run the gen plural thru the possive adj, as in 'ag roinnt a mbréagán'. I recall seeing something like this in one of the 'Teanga Bheo' series, Corca Dhuibhne, I think, in something like 'ag tiomáint mo chairr'.


Spot on, Jay Bee. That's the only change I would make to your translation - thanks to Mick for the first version of course that you then developed on. Except, I don't believe that it's a Munster thing at all - 'ag roinnt a mbréagán' is grammatically correct (genitive plural) to my mind, no matter what 'canúint' you have. Also you could say 'ag roinnt a gcuid bréagán'.


Thanks Jay Bee and Muimhneach for correcting me on that.

(Edit: I gave the wrong link :bash:, fixed now)

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Last edited by Mick on Fri 06 Dec 2013 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 2:28 pm 
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It's either 'tá' or 'go bhfuil; but not the 2 together.
Similarly for the other verb to be, either 'is' or 'gur' but not both together.

Tá sé déanach. Ceapaim go bhfuil sé déanach.

Is cailín maith thú. Tá a fhios agam gur cailín maith thú.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 2:31 pm 
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Fáilte romhat, Mick, a mhic.

You beat me to it on the 2 verb to be explanation.
Fágfaidh mé sibh go fóillín. Slán agus beannacht.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 4:05 pm 
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Luke Ó Scolaidhe wrote:
Why 'Bí i do chailín maith anois'? Is this like Tá sí ina suí? She is sitting down, in otherwords she is immersed in HER action so 'i do chailín maith' is like 'be in your good girl mode'

Well, this actually goes back to Scottish vs Scotsman, and yes, you were quite right. (Sorry for that mistake!)

As a rule, the copula (is) has to take two nouns/noun phrases and bind them together -- NíallBeag = Scotsman; always was, always will be.
The other "to be" (beith) takes one noun/noun phrase (the subject) and describes its temporary or transitory state through either an adjective or other construction that determines state, eg in English he is in the bath (no-one stays in the bath forever) or he is there (but might go somewhere else later on.

Be warned, that this logic is only a starting point, because at some point you will hit an exception. These exceptions have their own logic, so they're nothing to be feared.
Consider:
The mouse is there.
The car is there.
The house is there.
The mountain is there.


Now mice and cars move lots, so it's a temporary state.
Houses don't move, but they don't last forever, so you can argue that it's a temporary state.
Mountains.... well, most of them were there when the dinosaurs roamed the Earth, and they'll still be here when we're all extinct.

But (AFAIK) you still use "tá" when describing the location of the mountain. Why? Pure statistics. As most locations are temporary, people just got in the habit of saying it, and it was easier than categorising everything. (Incidentally, Spanish came to the same conclusion, and uses temporary is (estar) for all locations, regardless of whether it's movable or not.)

Quote:
Why gur instead of go bhfuil?

Basically, because "go bhfuil" is "that... is". "go bhfuil is" is therefore "that is is", which makes no sense.

The word for "that"/"which" is just "go", but the copula ([b]is[/i]) combines with "go" in an unusual way: go+is=gur.

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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 5:21 pm 
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tá and "state" come from the same etymological root
is and "essence" come from the same etymological root


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 7:07 pm 
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OK a few more about wearing clothes. These are some things I do be saying quite frequently but suspect there are probably proper phrases about putting clothes on so this might be nonsense. Also this 'é' business is starting to mess with my head today and make me second guess everything. So I threw one of those in there too :LOL:

Tóg do chóta as. - Take your coat off.

Caithimíd do chóta a thógadh as ar dtús. - We have to take your coat off first

Cur do chóta ort - Put your coat on

Cur do lamh/uileann trí an cris. - Put your arm through the belt

Caithfidhmíd a cur ceist sin le do mhamaí - we will have to ask your mother about that.

An bfhuil tú ceart go leor cúl an gluaistean - are you alright in the back of the car?

Ceapaim go bhfuil é sin ceart go leor. - I would have previously said: Ceapaim go bfhuil sin ceart go leor - I think that is ok

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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 8:13 pm 
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sin is OK for the demonstrative pronoun (or san) - it doesn't have to be é sin each time.

The way I have been taught (or taught myself) is:

Cuir do hata ort - put your hat on
Cuir do chóta umat - put your coat on (put your coat around you)

I don't think they necessarily follow that in all parts of the modern Gaeltacht, but traditionally this was correct.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 8:35 pm 
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Location: Nua Mheicsiceo
Cuir umat do chasóg. – Put on your coat.


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