Indirect Clauses

Mick · **Joined:** Fri 18 Nov 2011 2:27 pm **Posts:** 622

An Lon Dubh wrote:

Why is there no lenition on bualadh? (I'm probably missing something obvious!)

Ba mhaith liom í a bhualadh (Munster)
Ba mhaith liom í bualadh (Ulster)

It's the word "a" that causes lenition. Maybe Lughaidh can explain why there's no "a" in the Ulster version?

MacBoo wrote:

Breandán said I could ask as many questions as I wanted so if this is getting too much it's his fault...

Keep the questions coming. The rest of us are learning new things from the answers that people give to your questions.

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Ba mhaith liom í a bhualadh... = I would like to hit her
Ba mhaith liom í bualadh... = I would like her to hit...

From memory, Ó Siadhail's Modern Irish gives an example from Gaoth Dobhair:

Ba mhaith liom í a phósadh = I would like to marry her
Ba mhaith liom í pósadh = I would like her to marry

when the pronoun isn't the subject of the following verbal noun, you don't use "a" so there's no lenition either.

Quote:

It's really interesting hearing about the different meanings that phrase could have dependent on dialect.
How would you construct that sentence with "cas"?
Ba mhaith liom go gcasfaí uirthí an fear....??

yes it looks right.

An Lon Dubh · **Joined:** Fri 30 Sep 2011 10:08 pm **Posts:** 1313

Lughaidh wrote:

Ba mhaith liom í a bhualadh... = I would like to hit her
Ba mhaith liom í bualadh... = I would like her to hit...

From memory, Ó Siadhail's Modern Irish gives an example from Gaoth Dobhair:

Ba mhaith liom í a phósadh = I would like to marry her
Ba mhaith liom í pósadh = I would like her to marry

when the pronoun isn't the subject of the following verbal noun, you don't use "a" so there's no lenition either.

That's fascinating, I had no idea there was such a construction in Ulster Irish. :good:

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Seidh agus thig leat seo a ráidht fosta

"ba mhaith liom tú í a phósadh" = I would like you to marry her.

Gumbi · **Joined:** Tue 06 Sep 2011 8:09 pm **Posts:** 943

Lughaidh wrote:

Seidh agus thig leat seo a ráidht fosta

"ba mhaith liom tú í a phósadh" = I would like you to marry her.

Why can't ye keep it simple Ba mhaith liom go bpósfadh tú í HAHA :mrgreen:

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

or go bpósfá í

well, in English I guess you can say either "I want you to marry her" or "I want that you marry her" (nó rud ineacht mar sin)

Gumbi · **Joined:** Tue 06 Sep 2011 8:09 pm **Posts:** 943

Lughaidh wrote:

or go bpósfá í

well, in English I guess you can say either "I want you to marry her" or "I want that you marry her" (nó rud ineacht mar sin)

Or that of course

Rossaí · **Joined:** Sat 01 Oct 2011 12:03 am **Posts:** 231

MacBoo wrote:

I have a couple of questions if I may..

If you wanted to say "I would like her to meet the man that she wanted to kiss.", which of these would be right?
Or is there a better way to say it altogether?

Ba mhaith liom í a bhuaigh leis an bhfear ar mhian léi póg a thabhairt dó.
or
Ba mhaith liom go mbuafadh sí leis an bhfear ar mhian léi póg a thabhairt dó.

I have never really understood if gur and ar are interchangeable here, ...ar/gur mhian léi póg.... or is gur just used in this sort of sentence?

Duirt sé gur fear é. :??:

Thanks again

Sorry lads, I don't know how to isolate a phrase out of the bigger text. "I would like her to meet the man she wanted to kiss"......ba mhaith liom di dá mbualfadh sí leis an bhfear ar mhaith léi pógadh......Would ye go along with that?

Lughaidh · **Joined:** Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm **Posts:** 2436

Quote:

ba mhaith liom di dá mbualfadh sí leis an bhfear ar mhaith léi pógadh......

ba mhaith liom go mbuailfeadh sí leis an bhfear ba mhaith léi a phógadh.

NiallBeag · **Joined:** Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:58 pm **Posts:** 488

MacBoo wrote:

I have never really understood if gur and ar are interchangeable here, ...ar/gur mhian léi póg.... or is gur just used in this sort of sentence?

The basic difference is that "gur" usually expects a full clause after it, whereas there will normally be something that seems to be missing from the clause after "ar", which has been replaced by something before.

An Lon Dubh's examples show it perfectly:

An Lon Dubh wrote:

An tigh inar tógadh é The house in which he was raised.
An tigh gur tógadh ann é The house which he was raised in.

"gur tógadh ann é" -- all of "he was raised in it" is after the gur, but after ar we only have "he was raised" -- it's lost it's "in" to before the ar....

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