the déterminant-déterminé elements order is either Old Irish (1000 years ago, ie. not productive anymore) or English-influenced. It's not Modern Irish.



poetry is special. The everyday language and the poetry languages are completely different. In Poetry you can do almost anything, that you'd never say in the normal language.
Prìomhshràid is ok since "prìomh" is a prefixed adjective (like sean- etc).
The others you mentioned are in the English word order. "Accepted", yeah by those whose main language is English (or German etc). If English had never been spoken in Ireland, in Modern Irish nobody would ever have thought of putting elements in that order.
By the way, the Scottish Gaels seldom put elements in the English order in their new words, they keep closer to the Gaelic "mind" in that.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

On Pota Focal for a carwash, they give niteoir carranna or niteoir gluaisteán.
- It makes me think of a short tongue-twistery poem by Roger McGough, that might be fun translating into Irish:

I watched a Car-wash wash a car
I wish I was washed like Car-Washes wash
cars.

"If English had never been spoken in Ireland"....if me aunt had balls she'd be me uncle it's just the way it is man.

It just means "the elements of these compound words are put in that order because in English they are in that order" and that's all.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

that may be the case Lughaidh but there are lots of compound words in this fashion long before the English language became the dominant language in the country. Nonetheless, it is perfectly fine in modern Irish for the most part. Words like

Gaelchultúr, reophointe galfchúrsa srl are totally legitimate.

To suggest that they are not is incorrect. Nua-Ghaoluinn, srl. The poetry of Ó Bruadair and Ó Rathaille particularly point this up also. Further, the rules of poetic construction, morphological or syntactical, still are bound by the overall rules of the language. I do accept your suggestion that there is more freedom in poetic forms to "gerrymander" the rules but I would consider them still meaningful, afterall so much of the gaelic tradition is based on these forms, so much of the gaelic imagination is also. If Ó Ríordáin suggests the word "scamallsparán" I think that construction copperfastens the notion of these compounds. To think the opposite or to believe "just because it is poetry it doesn't count" is peculiar to me. There is no systematic philosophical type of thinking historically in Ireland save for the tradition of poetry. Look for example at the richness of the compounded words in the Bardic tradition and in Classical Irish itself. To suggest that Modern Irish should not contain these words is to ignore the long standing tradition that they seeded from. I would agree that there are some forms that do not make sense and it would be interesting to draw up the rules for the compounds that are legitimate and those that are not.

aye, in Old Irish and in Classical Irish poetry. But today people don't speak Old Irish nor poetical Classical Irish



in your opinion.



It would be interesting to make this experience:
ask a Gaeltacht native speaker to translate "Irish culture" into Irish. I doubt anyone would answer "Gaelchultúr". Same with reophointe etc etc. Simply because it's not the way Modern Irish works except sometimes in poetry. And anyway, I doubt any poet would say such things in normal speech!

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Irish?/ Gaelic Culture---dúchas...but fair enough I take your point. I just disagree with it fundamentally. Particularly considering these words are in common usage regardless of any opinion, they exist unto themselves. Nonetheless, it's healthy to disagree and have different opinions. You should listen to the weather reports in Irish to see and hear "reophointe" by both native and b speakers but stick with your own idea if it suits you. All the best I'm going out to get steamed and have a gorgeous dinner.....

they exist in the usage of learners, certain teachers and guys in offices in BÁC...



technical terms they have learnt. I talked about that with a journalist of TG4, she said she would use her dialect as much as possible but she has to use a few coined words anyway...


it's my idea not because it suits me, but because it's true. If you study the history of the Irish & Celtic languages and their lexical morphology and study native speech you'll see I'm right.

Dála an scéil (scéaldáil?), beidh deasdinnéar agam fosta Maithoíche duit

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Since there _are_ historical precedents for these forms in Old Irish (and in all Irish since then), the claim that these are "Germanic" forms is incorrect and generally based on prejudice rather than fact.

Moreover, the only people I have heard complain about it are a French scholar and one native speaker, but it can by no means be assumed that _all_ native speakers reject the compound forms. In fact, there is a quite a lot of usage of prefixed adjectives in native Irish, and quite a lot of less common forms appear in literature.

Thus, your assertion of "fact" is merely your own opinion, Lughaidh. Don't get over-emphatic about it.

My view is that having both forms enriches the language. If you choose to use one form and not the other that is your prerogative, but attacking people who use the compound forms is both mímhúinte and drochmhúinte.

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

Lughaidh is not "attacking" anybody.
We are all entitled to voice our opinions.

To a large extent I agree with him.
Some newly coined compound words sound odd to me too.

_________________
___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
___________________________________________________________