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 Post subject: Re: 'ucht' - cathain?
PostPosted: Tue 20 Nov 2012 7:12 pm 
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Scooby wrote:
Breandán wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Míle buíochas as an tacaíocht (a thug tú dom). :?:

:no: , there should be an "urú" on the "t"! other than that :good:

:??: What? a dtug tú dom?

As I mentioned, there is no d in as an tacaíocht outside Munster.

Just for information (assuming I've read it right), the new CO gives the 'leagan seanbhunaithe' which omits eclipsis before d and t in the type of example above. But then, on the following pages, it gives other options - including eclipsis of d and t. I think the idea is to broaden what is acceptable as long as there is consistency in any given piece of writing.

Which I interpret to mean that both as an tacaíocht and as an dtacaíocht are acceptable in CO, depending on which dialect you speak and as long as you are consistent about it.

Munster speakers are right to put urú on a t or d in as an dtacaíocht in accordance with their dialect if they choose, but not right to call as an tacaíocht "wrong", or to insist that others put urú in the same position. And of course the reverse is also true, i.e., no one can say as an dtacaíocht is "wrong", provided that it is used consistently in the context.

However, it does need to be pointed out that as an dtacaíocht is a Munster form and that as an tacaíocht is used elsewhere so that learners can in turn be consistent in their own usage. (Saoirse doesn't usually use Munster forms, so as an dtacaíocht would be inconsistent with her usual style.)

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: 'ucht' - cathain?
PostPosted: Tue 20 Nov 2012 11:21 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Saoirse doesn't usually use Munster forms, so as an dtacaíocht would be inconsistent with her usual style.
I think I am very consistent in that I consistently make mistakes...... :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: 'ucht' - cathain?
PostPosted: Tue 20 Nov 2012 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Tue 06 Sep 2011 7:18 pm
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Breandán wrote:
Scooby wrote:
Breandán wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Míle buíochas as an tacaíocht (a thug tú dom). :?:

:no: , there should be an "urú" on the "t"! other than that :good:

:??: What? a dtug tú dom?

As I mentioned, there is no d in as an tacaíocht outside Munster.

Just for information (assuming I've read it right), the new CO gives the 'leagan seanbhunaithe' which omits eclipsis before d and t in the type of example above. But then, on the following pages, it gives other options - including eclipsis of d and t. I think the idea is to broaden what is acceptable as long as there is consistency in any given piece of writing.

Which I interpret to mean that both as an tacaíocht and as an dtacaíocht are acceptable in CO, depending on which dialect you speak and as long as you are consistent about it.

Munster speakers are right to put urú on a t or d in as an dtacaíocht in accordance with their dialect if they choose, but not right to call as an tacaíocht "wrong", or to insist that others put urú in the same position. And of course the reverse is also true, i.e., no one can say as an dtacaíocht is "wrong", provided that it is used consistently in the context.

However, it does need to be pointed out that as an dtacaíocht is a Munster form and that as an tacaíocht is used elsewhere so that learners can in turn be consistent in their own usage. (Saoirse doesn't usually use Munster forms, so as an dtacaíocht would be inconsistent with her usual style.)


Absolument!


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 Post subject: Re: 'ucht' - cathain?
PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2012 12:21 am 
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Freagairt do Bhreandán
Breandán wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Míle buíochas as an tacaíocht (a thug tú dom). :?:

:no: , there should be an "urú" on the "t"! other than that :good:

:??: What? a dtug tú dom?

As I mentioned, there is no d in as an tacaíocht outside Munster.


Do thuigeas go breágh, ní rabhas ach ag magadh leat. Do Bhíos ag iarraidh imirt ar do joke féinig (nachar/nár aimsigheas gurb é as an dtacaíocht cam/mícheart de réir na DNTLs, acht go bhfuil sé ceart de réir Chanmhaint na Mumhan)! Is léir anois nár oibrigh sé, glanfadsa an díobháil láithreach :facepalm: :

Thá "as an tacaíocht" gan an "d" ceart go hiomlán do réir an tSeana-Chaighdeáin is de réir na gcanmhaintighe (gcanúintí) eile lasmuich/ lasmuigh don Mhumhain! Ach, thá "as an dtacaíocht" ceart anois de réir an Chaighdeáin athbhreithnithe leis: lch 22 (http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/med ... ook(211211).pdf)

(Ach, gan amhras do bhí ' fhios agatsa chomh maith a Bhreandáin! Thá'n nasc san le haghaidh dhaoine nár fheacaigh é 'dtí so)

"As an tacaíocht" without the "d" is correct according to the old-standard and the other dialects outside of Munster. However, "as an dtacaiocht" is correct also according to the revised standard.

Hope the crises has been averted! :oops: , Or are we still on code red?

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Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: 'ucht' - cathain?
PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2012 9:14 am 
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Location: An Astráil
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Freagairt do Bhreandán
Breandán wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Míle buíochas as an tacaíocht (a thug tú dom). :?:

:no: , there should be an "urú" on the "t"! other than that :good:

:??: What? a dtug tú dom?

As I mentioned, there is no d in as an tacaíocht outside Munster.


Do thuigeas go breágh, ní rabhas ach ag magadh leat. Do Bhíos ag iarraidh imirt ar do joke féinig (nachar/nár aimsigheas gurb é as an dtacaíocht cam/mícheart de réir na DNTLs, acht go bhfuil sé ceart de réir Chanmhaint na Mumhan)! Is léir anois nár oibrigh sé, glanfadsa an díobháil láithreach :facepalm: :

Thá "as an tacaíocht" gan an "d" ceart go hiomlán do réir an tSeana-Chaighdeáin is de réir na gcanmhaintighe (gcanúintí) eile lasmuich/ lasmuigh don Mhumhain! Ach, thá "as an dtacaíocht" ceart anois de réir an Chaighdeáin athbhreithnithe leis: lch 22 (http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/med ... ook(211211).pdf)

(Ach, gan amhras do bhí ' fhios agatsa chomh maith a Bhreandáin! Thá'n nasc san le haghaidh dhaoine nár fheacaigh é 'dtí so)

"As an tacaíocht" without the "d" is correct according to the old-standard and the other dialects outside of Munster. However, "as an dtacaiocht" is correct also according to the revised standard.

Hope the crises has been averted! :oops: , Or are we still on code red?

:oops: <= Code red = my face right now. :LOL: I should have realised you were just having a go, a Chiain, but dry humour gets lost in print without a smiley or a wink. :winkgrin:

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: 'ucht' - cathain?
PostPosted: Wed 21 Nov 2012 10:31 am 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1527
[quote="Breandán
Hope the crises has been averted! :oops: , Or are we still on code red?[/quote]
:oops: <= Code red = my face right now. :LOL: I should have realised you were just having a go, a Chiain, but dry humour gets lost in print without a smiley or a wink. :winkgrin:[/quote]

:LOL: , ah feck, I thought I put in a smiley face, it'll have to be smiley faces and winks from here on out! :) :) :) ;) ;) ;)

_________________
Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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