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 Post subject: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 4:07 am 
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Hi Guys

"Tá leadóg á himirt ag na mná"

Why is the "h" in front of "imirt" ?

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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 10:55 am 
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Because "leadóg" is feminine:

Tennis is "at-her playing" by the women.

and "her playing" is "a himirt", so "at her playing" is "á himirt" :)

Similarly, "her father" is "a hathair" while "his father is "a athair". The feminine possessive "a" prefixes h to vowels.

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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 7:56 pm 
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Go raibh maith agat.

Looking at the rules for determining whether something is masculine or feminine....
I don't see one that says "Sacar" is masculine, I think it is, but why?

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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 8:25 pm 
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There's no reason, there are just "etymological reasons", and so many exceptions that you have to learn the gender of every new noun. But it's the same thing in most languages of the world - you English speakers aren't used to that since there's no gender anymore in English, except for pronouns :)

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2012 6:23 pm
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cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 8:56 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
But it's the same thing in most languages of the world

I think nouns having grammatical gender is pretty well limited to Indo-European languages, if not European languages only. Most East Asian languages certainly don't have it.

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 9:46 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
But it's the same thing in most languages of the world

I think nouns having grammatical gender is pretty well limited to Indo-European languages, if not European languages only. Most East Asian languages certainly don't have it.


The non-European Indo-European languages (Persian, Sanskrit, Armenian) have grammatical gender too, as do the Semitic languages. Other languages also divide their nouns into classes called "genders" although those genders aren't labeled masculine/feminine/(neuter). For example, a lot of Native American languages have an animate and an inanimate gender, and the complicated noun classes of the Bantu languages are considered genders as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 10:39 pm 
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an_t-uaithneach wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
But it's the same thing in most languages of the world

I think nouns having grammatical gender is pretty well limited to Indo-European languages, if not European languages only. Most East Asian languages certainly don't have it.


The non-European Indo-European languages (Persian, Sanskrit, Armenian) have grammatical gender too, as do the Semitic languages. Other languages also divide their nouns into classes called "genders" although those genders aren't labeled masculine/feminine/(neuter). For example, a lot of Native American languages have an animate and an inanimate gender, and the complicated noun classes of the Bantu languages are considered genders as well.

Perhaps they have classes, but surely they should only be classed as "genders" if similar distinctions are also made for biological genders withib the language.

Do native Americans class their women as inanimate and their men as animate? (In a way, the Chinese do - women are Yin (passive) and men are Yang (active) - but it is not really a gender class.) The Japanese use different verbs for animate and inanimate subjects, but again it is not a "gender" distinction.

It all just sounds like Europeans trying to project the "universality" of their idiosyncrasies onto other languages based on a few cherry-picked examples (again). :razz:

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Wed 19 Sep 2012 11:07 pm 
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Posts: 2436
Quote:
The non-European Indo-European languages (Persian, Sanskrit, Armenian) have grammatical gender too,


Modern Persian has no gender. Sanskrit has, Hindi has...

Quote:
as do the Semitic languages.


yes, Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Amharic all have genders. Berber languages and Egyptian too.
There are no real noun genders in Lakhota but women and men don't speak the same way (there are different particles and stuff), as in Japanese, Korean (if I remember well)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_gender

Quote:
It all just sounds like Europeans trying to project the "universality" of their idiosyncrasies onto other languages based on a few cherry-picked examples (again).


well, no, grammatical genders do exist all over the world :)

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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 Post subject: Re: Why the "h"
PostPosted: Thu 20 Sep 2012 6:34 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
well, no, grammatical genders do exist all over the world
But not in the strict sense of dividing all nouns into masculine and feminine (and neuter), which was what we were talking about in the first place.

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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