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 Post subject: OT English question
PostPosted: Tue 28 Aug 2012 6:25 pm 
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I know that this is an Irish language forum but perhaps you will give me some latitude given my contributions here. I have a question about English and since we have so many linguists here...

Okay, so the story is that I'm doing some proofreading and I have come across some article headings like Careers Evening / Irish Senior Schools Championship and the likes of "they participated in the water skills award programme".

My question is - should I have an apostrophe before the s in the underlined words, in some or all cases above?

Also, if you look at the word 'programme' above, what is the rule about the full stop? Should it precede the inverted commas? I believe there is a difference between American and English usage, and in English usage it may depend on whether the quotation stands alone or is part of a longer sentence.
...or maybe not!

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: OT English question
PostPosted: Tue 28 Aug 2012 9:33 pm 
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Scooby wrote:
I know that this is an Irish language forum but perhaps you will give me some latitude given my contributions here. I have a question about English and since we have so many linguists here...

Okay, so the story is that I'm doing some proofreading and I have come across some article headings like Careers Evening / Irish Senior Schools Championship and the likes of "they participated in the water skills award programme".

My question is - should I have an apostrophe before the s in the underlined words, in some or all cases above?

Also, if you look at the word 'programme' above, what is the rule about the full stop? Should it precede the inverted commas? I believe there is a difference between American and English usage, and in English usage it may depend on whether the quotation stands alone or is part of a longer sentence.
...or maybe not!

Thanks in advance.


My inclination would be to not use an apostrophe, as these words are being used as adjectives rather than as possessives.

I would, however, put a hyphen in "water-skills."

In current standard U.S. usage, punctuation always goes inside of quotation marks. That hasn't always been the case, however, and I don't know how our usage may differ from British usage in that regard.

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: OT English question
PostPosted: Tue 28 Aug 2012 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
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Scooby wrote:
I know that this is an Irish language forum but perhaps you will give me some latitude given my contributions here. I have a question about English and since we have so many linguists here...

Okay, so the story is that I'm doing some proofreading and I have come across some article headings like Careers Evening / Irish Senior Schools Championship and the likes of "they participated in the water skills award programme".

My question is - should I have an apostrophe before the s in the underlined words, in some or all cases above?

Also, if you look at the word 'programme' above, what is the rule about the full stop? Should it precede the inverted commas? I believe there is a difference between American and English usage, and in English usage it may depend on whether the quotation stands alone or is part of a longer sentence.
...or maybe not!

Thanks in advance.


If it were me than I would have put an apostrophe Irish Senior Schools' Championship, not to sure with anything else. I'm probably wrong though as my English spelling and punctuation is awful.

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Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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 Post subject: Re: OT English question
PostPosted: Tue 28 Aug 2012 10:05 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
Scooby wrote:
I know that this is an Irish language forum but perhaps you will give me some latitude given my contributions here. I have a question about English and since we have so many linguists here...

Okay, so the story is that I'm doing some proofreading and I have come across some article headings like Careers Evening / Irish Senior Schools Championship and the likes of "they participated in the water skills award programme".

My question is - should I have an apostrophe before the s in the underlined words, in some or all cases above?

Also, if you look at the word 'programme' above, what is the rule about the full stop? Should it precede the inverted commas? I believe there is a difference between American and English usage, and in English usage it may depend on whether the quotation stands alone or is part of a longer sentence.
...or maybe not!

Thanks in advance.


My inclination would be to not use an apostrophe, as these words are being used as adjectives rather than as possessives.

I would, however, put a hyphen in "water-skills."

In current standard U.S. usage, punctuation always goes inside of quotation marks. That hasn't always been the case, however, and I don't know how our usage may differ from British usage in that regard.

Redwolf

I agree with Redwolf.

On the full stop question, I think British English writers still prefer to put the punctuation outside quotation marks on smaller units such as if you were quoting a list of words or phrases, each in quotation marks, but inside if the quotation is longer and is a continuation of the main sentence.

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: OT English question
PostPosted: Tue 28 Aug 2012 10:10 pm 
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My vote is for Careers Evening (no apostrophe as I agree with Redwolf that Careers is more of an adjective here) and Irish Senior Schools' Championship (I would include an apostrophe here as it seems to be the championship of the Irish Senior Schools and so I would treat is as possessive although I can why people might go the other way on this one).

"They participated in the water skills award programme." is a self-contained sentence, but you had a small t so it is as if what you wrote was not the entire sentence which may change things.

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Is foghlaimeoir mé. I am a learner. DEFINITELY wait for others to confirm and/or improve.
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 Post subject: Re: OT English question
PostPosted: Wed 29 Aug 2012 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue 06 Sep 2011 7:18 pm
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Go raibh maith agaibh as bhur bhfreagraí.


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 Post subject: Re: OT English question
PostPosted: Fri 31 Aug 2012 8:15 am 
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Joined: Fri 18 Nov 2011 2:27 pm
Posts: 622
Finally, a question that I can answer with confidence. :LOL:

Redwolf is on the right track here. The s in careers evening and schools championship is simply a plural, not a possessive.

Career Evening/Careers Evening
School Championship/Schools Championship

As for the full stop going inside or outside the quotation marks, I was taught that either is fine as long as you're consistent. But if you're writing a newspaper article, college essay etc. you have to find out what the preferred in-house style is.

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