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PostPosted: Mon 27 Aug 2012 2:25 am 
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Aislingeach wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
I have heard both both sa bhaile and sa mbaile in Corca Dhuibhne.

I've also given an explanation on why there is so much dialectal variation on the first page of Saoirse's humongous 21 page thread of preposition games.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1375


Ok, so either is correct, thanks. Yes, I printed out your explanation, and am still working my way through it, bit by bit. All at once was kind of information overload.

All this to teach the dog to put away her toys! :LOL:


:LOL:

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Aug 2012 2:40 am 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
:good: , It is traditional but it is starting to fall out of use. The same can be said about counting things in twenties. So dhá fhichid (fiche takes on the dative after dhá because dhá brings about the dual rule) instead of dachad/ daichead/ ceathracha. Counting things in twenties is more common for larger numbers though. I see you have cheithre séimhithe, you may also put a séimhiú on cúig> chúig.

Counting is so feckin difficult! :LOL:


"Traditional but starting to fall out of use." Hmm....you may have just pushed me off the fence! :darklaugh:

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Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Aug 2012 4:44 am 
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Aislingeach wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
:good: , It is traditional but it is starting to fall out of use. The same can be said about counting things in twenties. So dhá fhichid (fiche takes on the dative after dhá because dhá brings about the dual rule) instead of dachad/ daichead/ ceathracha. Counting things in twenties is more common for larger numbers though. I see you have cheithre séimhithe, you may also put a séimhiú on cúig> chúig.

Counting is so feckin difficult! :LOL:


"Traditional but starting to fall out of use." Hmm....you may have just pushed me off the fence! :darklaugh:


Try and stay on the fence... we need to keep all of what we can of dialectal Irish alive! :LOL:

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Aug 2012 11:44 am 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Try and stay on the fence... we need to keep all of what we can of dialectal Irish alive! :LOL:

"On the fence" means "undecided" here. Ach ná bac leis, a chara, I fell on the traditional side, of course! :winkgrin:

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Aug 2012 1:55 pm 
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Aislingeach wrote:
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Try and stay on the fence... we need to keep all of what we can of dialectal Irish alive! :LOL:

"On the fence" means "undecided" here. Ach ná bac leis, a chara, I fell on the traditional side, of course! :winkgrin:


:LOL: , the trditional side is the greener side :LOL:

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Aug 2012 9:58 pm 
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Posts: 1313
WeeFalorieMan wrote:
I was told that this is the more traditional way to count in Munster, and this way of counting is also shown in Teach Yourself Irish and a couple of other books I've read.

It is also mentioned here as a less common way of counting:
http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/zahl4.htm#neamh

Well in Cork(because the rules aren't the same even in Kerry) the rules for counting are (here we go):
When counting from 1-10:

1. aon: lenites takes the singular.

2. dhá, or dá after the article: lenites and takes the dual, which is the same as the singular for masculine words
but for feminine words its formed by knocking the final "e" off the genitive:
dhá chapall
dhá bhróig

3.,4.,6. Singular or plural. Lenite if you take the singular.
The following words must take the singular:
acra
céad
clais


míle
oíche
seomra
slí
The following must take the plural and their plural after numbers is not their normal plural:
bliain
uair
pingin
scilling
seachtain
fear
(I think Kerry includes glúin in this list)

Outside this you have a choice, but it is more common to use the singular.

5. cúig is pronounced chúig. (Unless you're just saying the number itself)
chúig lenites weak plurals, eclipses strong plurals and does nothing to the obligatory plural words, e.g.

chúig bhallóga
chúig mbailte
chúig seachtaine

Or you could just use the singular, in which case you just lenite.

7.-10. Same as above, except you always eclipse

11.-19. Just add déag to the above, or dhéag if you use the singular and it ends with a vowel.

21. The singular and "is fiche". Bó is fiche.

22. "dhá" and "is fiche", obeying the rules for dhá above. dhá bhróig is fiche.

23.-30. Follow the rules for 3.-10. and just add fichead at the end. trí charr fichead.
fichead is lenited just as déag is after singulars ending with vowels.

31.-39. The rules for 11.-19. with "ar fhichid" after.

41.-99. The rules for 1.-19. but with is daichead (40), is trí fichid (60) or is cheithre fichid (80) after.

20. and 100. Use the genitive plural traditionally, but nowadays they use the nominative singular.

Adjectives:

1. Singular form and lenited if feminine and not if masculine.

2. Plural form and lenited.

3.-10. Plural form and you lenite if noun is singular or if it is plural with a slender ending.

Genitive:

1. an aon, masculine and na haon, feminine. Noun and adjective in genitive.

2. Same as nominative.

3.-10. Number and noun eclipsed. Adjective follows nominative rules above.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


Last edited by An Lon Dubh on Tue 28 Aug 2012 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon 27 Aug 2012 10:13 pm 
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Posts: 279
Location: Hamilton, NJ, USA
An Lon Dubh wrote:
WeeFalorieMan wrote:
I was told that this is the more traditional way to count in Munster, and this way of counting is also shown in Teach Yourself Irish and a couple of other books I've read.

It is also mentioned here as a less common way of counting:
http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/zahl4.htm#neamh

Well in Cork(because the rules aren't the same even in Kerry) the rules for counting are (here we go):
When counting from 1-10:

1. aon: lenites takes the singular.

2. dhá, or dá before the article: lenites and takes the dual, which is the same as the singular for masculine words
but for feminine words its formed by knocking the final "e" off the genitive:
dhá chapall
dhá bhróig

3.,4.,6. Singular or plural. Lenite if you take the singular.
The following words must take the singular:
acra
céad
clais


míle
oíche
seomra
slí
The following must take the plural and their plural after numbers is not their normal plural:
bliain
uair
pingin
scilling
seachtain
fear
(I think Kerry includes glúin in this list)

Outside this you have a choice, but it is more common to use the singular.

5. cúig is pronounced chúig. (Unless you're just saying the number itself)
chúig lenites weak plurals, eclipses strong plurals and does nothing to the obligatory plural words, e.g.

chúig bhallóga
chúig mbailte
chúig seachtaine

Or you could just use the singular, in which case you just lenite.

7.-10. Same as above, except you always eclipse

11.-19. Just add déag to the above, or dhéag if you use the singular and it ends with a vowel.

21. The singular and "is fiche". Bó is fiche.

22. "dhá" and "is fiche", obeying the rules for dhá above. dhá bhróig is fiche.

23.-30. Follow the rules for 3.-10. and just add fichead at the end. trí charr fichead.
fichead is lenited just as déag is after singulars ending with vowels.

31.-39. The rules for 11.-19. with "ar fhichid" after.

41.-99. The rules for 1.-19. but with is daichead (40), is trí fichid (60) or is cheithre fichid (80) after.

20. and 100. Use the genitive plural traditionally, but nowadays they use the nominative singular.

Adjectives:

1. Singular form and lenited if feminine and not if masculine.

2. Plural form and lenited.

3.-10. Plural form and you lenite if noun is singular or if it is plural with a slender ending.

Genitive:

1. an aon, masculine and na haon, feminine. Noun and adjective in genitive.

2. Same as nominative.

3.-10. Number and noun eclipsed. Adjective follows nominative rules above.


OMD! :panic:

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Aug 2012 10:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Sep 2011 2:06 pm
Posts: 715
An Lon Dubh wrote:
Well in Cork...


How would they say "Cork, one goal and eleven points, Donegal sixteen points"? :LOL:


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PostPosted: Tue 28 Aug 2012 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
Posts: 1527
An Lon Dubh wrote:
WeeFalorieMan wrote:
I was told that this is the more traditional way to count in Munster, and this way of counting is also shown in Teach Yourself Irish and a couple of other books I've read.

It is also mentioned here as a less common way of counting:
http://nualeargais.ie/gnag/zahl4.htm#neamh

Well in Cork(because the rules aren't the same even in Kerry) the rules for counting are (here we go):
When counting from 1-10:

1. aon: lenites takes the singular.

2. dhá, or dá before the article: lenites and takes the dual, which is the same as the singular for masculine words
but for feminine words its formed by knocking the final "e" off the genitive:
dhá chapall
dhá bhróig

3.,4.,6. Singular or plural. Lenite if you take the singular.
The following words must take the singular:
acra
céad
clais


míle
oíche
seomra
slí
The following must take the plural and their plural after numbers is not their normal plural:
bliain
uair
pingin
scilling
seachtain
fear
(I think Kerry includes glúin in this list)

Outside this you have a choice, but it is more common to use the singular.

5. cúig is pronounced chúig. (Unless you're just saying the number itself)
chúig lenites weak plurals, eclipses strong plurals and does nothing to the obligatory plural words, e.g.

chúig bhallóga
chúig mbailte
chúig seachtaine

Or you could just use the singular, in which case you just lenite.

7.-10. Same as above, except you always eclipse

11.-19. Just add déag to the above, or dhéag if you use the singular and it ends with a vowel.

21. The singular and "is fiche". Bó is fiche.

22. "dhá" and "is fiche", obeying the rules for dhá above. dhá bhróig is fiche.

23.-30. Follow the rules for 3.-10. and just add fichead at the end. trí charr fichead.
fichead is lenited just as déag is after singulars ending with vowels.

31.-39. The rules for 11.-19. with "ar fhichid" after.

41.-99. The rules for 1.-19. but with is daichead (40), is trí fichid (60) or is cheithre fichid (80) after.

20. and 100. Use the genitive plural traditionally, but nowadays they use the nominative singular.

Adjectives:

1. Singular form and lenited if feminine and not if masculine.

2. Plural form and lenited.

3.-10. Plural form and you lenite if noun is singular or if it is plural with a slender ending.

Genitive:

1. an aon, masculine and na haon, feminine. Noun and adjective in genitive.

2. Same as nominative.

3.-10. Number and noun eclipsed. Adjective follows nominative rules above.


Excellent explanation Lon Dubh!

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(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Tue 28 Aug 2012 2:53 pm 
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Posts: 1527
Errigal wrote:
An Lon Dubh wrote:
Well in Cork...


How would they say "Cork, one goal and eleven points, Donegal sixteen points"? :LOL:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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