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PostPosted: Sun 27 Oct 2024 11:08 pm 
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Hi everyone, I came across the phrase “d’fliuch sé an leaba” over here on gaschaint.ie.
I noticed that the Connacht speakers retained the “d’” sound of the “do” particle whereas the Ulster and Munster speakers dropped it.
My understanding was that the d should be retained in these situations (e.g. d’fháisc sé é) but in this instance it seems it’s ok to either keep or drop it.
Does anyone know the rationale for this?
I can only assume the d+l combo is a little harder to sound out, so speakers opt to drop it, but there may be another reason.
And if so are there other combos like this where the d is regularly dropped (maybe with “fr” combos)?


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PostPosted: Mon 28 Oct 2024 4:36 am 
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Well, if it's relevant, d'fhliuch is often found as do fhliuch in traditional Munster literature. It is also found as d'fhliuch too, so both forms are there.

Another combination is fhr. D'fhreagair is often found as do fhreagair in traditional Munster literature. Amhlaoibh Ó Loingsigh has this, as well as Peadar Ua Laoghaire.

Neither of these is found in print as such as fhliuch or fhreagair, at least in works published before 1950. But writing the perfective particle separately might imply that it could be dropped???


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PostPosted: Mon 28 Oct 2024 11:10 am 
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Thanks for the extra context dj.
I think it does help, and points to the “do” being optional in these instances.


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PostPosted: Sun 05 Jan 2025 4:53 am 
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Location: Denver, Colorado
LASID, Volume 2 (question 846):

point 13: ,də ˈl´ux ʃe,
point 18: ,də ˈl´ux ʃe,
point 20: l´ųx ʃe: er´ mad´ɪn´ → fhliuch sé ar maidin

all other points use different constructions

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I'm an intermediate speaker of the Corca Dhuibhne dialect of Irish and also have knowledge on the old spelling
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PostPosted: Sun 05 Jan 2025 2:48 pm 
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Thanks Séamus! I don't have LASID so that's a great find.
Btw what was the question for the response in point 20 for fhliuch sé ar maidin? I'm not sure what it means in context here.


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PostPosted: Sun 05 Jan 2025 3:24 pm 
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Location: Denver, Colorado
The question was:

Quote:
846 it rained ; it will rain [221]


The full answers to the questions were

13: ,də ˈl´ux ʃe, ; ,b´e ʃe. ˈf´l´ʲux, also ,ˈf´l´uxi ʃe əˈmɑ:r´əx, → it will rain tomorrow
18: ,də ˈl´ux ʃe, ; f´l´uxə ʃe (or d´iənɪ ʃe bɑ:ʃṭ´əx) (insert comma on map 221 between the two variants !)
20: l´ųx ʃe: er´ mad´ɪn´ → fhliuch sé ar maidin ; f´l´ųxhə ʃe:

(by the way, the corresponding places to the points are Lauragh [13], Waterville [18], and Dunquin [20])

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Soir gaċ síar, fé ḋeireaḋ thíar


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