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 Post subject: Re: Rolled R
PostPosted: Sun 05 Aug 2018 10:09 am 
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Posts: 279
Lughaidh wrote:
Polish has a broad and slender consonants too, and the "r's" are more similar to those of Gaeltacht Irish :)


Yes, Polish /r/ is identical to the Irish one, but we don’t have anything like Irish sleder r :(. Old Polish had a sound-like-that, but it evolved into modern ⟨rz⟩ which is just [ʒ ~ ʐ] (Czech still has ⟨ř⟩ [r̝] which is something between slender r and the zh sound).

And most of our slender (or soft as we call them) consonants have a bit different realization (are even more palatal), some of the Czech and Russian sounds are closer. ;-)

But still, I agree, that Irish phonology is easier to a Pole (or any other Slav) than to an English speaker. English has a shitload of phonemic vowels, and very few consonants, while both Irish and Slavic languages differentiate just a couple vowels, while having this a-few-variants-of-each-consonant thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Rolled R
PostPosted: Sun 05 Aug 2018 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun 12 Nov 2017 2:55 pm
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Kto wiedział? Brzmicie bardziej irlandzcy niż Irlandczycy sami.


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 Post subject: Re: Rolled R
PostPosted: Wed 22 Aug 2018 7:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat 07 Feb 2015 11:24 am
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Location: Baile Mhic Ghoilla Eoin, VA
Sionnach wrote:
Also I must thank you for your contribution to Forvo, I've been listening to a lot of your inputs on that website :mrgreen:

Bríd's work on forvo is the most incredible resource for Irish learners like us. I cannot say enough how thankful I am for her work and any time it comes up I am glad to repeat it :) :) :clap: :clap:

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ЯГОН ТОҶИК НЕСТ ИНҶО???


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 Post subject: Re: Rolled R
PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep 2024 11:30 am 
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Joined: Fri 09 Aug 2024 11:55 pm
Posts: 34
Dia is Muire dhuit!

As people have already commented, pronouncing any r's in Irish like the English r ([ɹ̠] or [ɻ] usually) is incorrect Irish. I don't think that a single dialect traditionally has or had this sound. (C'est tout aussi incorrecte que de prononcer le r à l'anglaise en français.)

Typically Irish has two r sounds:
- a broad r [ɾˠ], which is a velarised tap or flap, almost identical to the Spanish r in pero.

- and a slender r [ɾʲ], which is a palatap tap or flap (there is some slight variation of this sound depending on the dialect or position in the word).

If you're interested in more details there is also a devoiced version depending on the position in the word, and a trilled r, like in the Spanish rr in perro, which is noted in a few sources to still have been in use by some speakers in some dialects. I personally like to maintain this distinction but it's not necessary as most native speakers today lost that sound.


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 Post subject: Re: Rolled R
PostPosted: Sat 04 Jan 2025 1:38 am 
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Joined: Sat 31 Jul 2021 8:03 pm
Posts: 168
AnCanúnaighe wrote:
Dia is Muire dhuit!
Typically Irish has two r sounds:
- a broad r [ɾˠ], which is a velarised tap or flap, almost identical to the Spanish r in pero.


I find it interesting that you say 'almost identical' because it ties in with something I have wondered about in the past.

Spanish 'pero' has a (plain) alveolar tap i.e. [ɾ].
Irish broad r is a velarised alveolar tap i.e. [ɾˠ].
Irish slender r is a palatalised alveolar tap i.e [ɾʲ] (at least in the default realisation of slender r).

So you might expect that the Spanish tapped r, having no secondary articulation, would be midway between Irish broad r and Irish slender r. But in practice, that is not the case. Spanish tapped r is far closer to Irish broad r than to Irish slender r. In fact, I personally can't hear a difference between Spanish tapped r and Irish broad r; and you will occasionally come across people who say that they are in fact the same. This is despite my understanding that a velarised consonant should sound deeper than its plain counterpart.

For instance, you might theoretically expect the difference between [ɾ] and [ɾˠ] to be the same as the difference in English between light l [l] (which is a plain consonant i.e. it has no secondary articulation) and dark l [lˠ] (which is velarised, thus giving it a deeper quality).


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