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PostPosted: Mon 28 Mar 2016 1:11 pm 
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Is it an appositional relationship (An t-Athair Ó Tuamtha) or an ownership one?

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PostPosted: Mon 28 Mar 2016 4:21 pm 
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Jay Bee wrote:
Is it an appositional relationship (An t-Athair Ó Tuamtha) or an ownership one?


Both ;)
It's an appositional genitive: Sráid Uí Chonaill


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PostPosted: Tue 29 Mar 2016 5:17 pm 
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On a side note, sometimes the nominative is used instead of the genitive as a mark f respect.

This is particularly prevalent in religious contexts, e.g. the naming of churches etc...

There was a debate a good number of years ago to whether or not the genitive should be used with regard to Peadar - i.e. saothar Pheadar Uí Laoghaire or saothar P(h)eadar Ua Laoghaire - such was people's respect for the man.

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PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016 4:45 pm 
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I see.

What would happen if you were talking about a sept, in a historical context?

Bealach Uí(bh) Néill -the avenue of the Ó Néill sept

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PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016 5:05 pm 
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Jay Bee wrote:
I see.

What would happen if you were talking about a sept, in a historical context?

Bealach Uí(bh) Néill -the avenue of the Ó Néill sept


rather:
Bealach Ó Néill
Bealach Ó gConaill
7rl.


Last edited by Labhrás on Wed 30 Mar 2016 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016 5:43 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
There was a debate a good number of years ago to whether or not the genitive should be used with regard to Peadar - i.e. saothar Pheadar Uí Laoghaire or saothar P(h)eadar Ua Laoghaire - such was people's respect for the man.

Cian

Yes, you'd see this in the dative as well:
Mar gheall ar An tAthair Peadar Ua Laoghaire

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PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016 5:45 pm 
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Quote:
Bealach Ó Néill
Bealach Ó gCoinaill


Why the urú? Genitive plural?

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PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016 5:49 pm 
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Jay Bee wrote:
Quote:
Bealach Ó Néill
Bealach Ó gCoinaill


Why the urú? Genitive plural?

Yes and Ó is the genitive plural of Ó, dative plural Uíbh.

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PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016 6:14 pm 
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An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
There was a debate a good number of years ago to whether or not the genitive should be used with regard to Peadar - i.e. saothar Pheadar Uí Laoghaire or saothar P(h)eadar Ua Laoghaire - such was people's respect for the man.

Cian


An Lon Dubh wrote:
Yes, you'd see this in the dative as well:
Mar gheall ar An tAthair Peadar Ua Laoghaire


Both sounds strange. :??:

I'd expect:
An tAthair Peadar Ua Laoghaire
saothar an Athar Peadar Ua Laoghaire
mar gheall ar an Athair Peadar Ua Laoghaire


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PostPosted: Wed 30 Mar 2016 9:28 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
Both sounds strange. :??:

I'd expect:
An tAthair Peadar Ua Laoghaire
saothar an Athar Peadar Ua Laoghaire
mar gheall ar an Athair Peadar Ua Laoghaire

Those are indeed correct, but native speakers, at least in Munster, do retain the nominative out of respect. It also often happens for pen names, but that's probably not as surprising.

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