Did that happen with many Viking words? I notice Norse halla remained untouched (ScG delinited it to talla, as they did with many, but not all, placenames).

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Fascinating. As with most of this stuff about which English words are in general use in the Gaeltacht - it might depend on the Gaeltacht area. I mean, the Gaeltacht areas are so disparate, it's difficult to be sure there is no Gaeltacht village where people say Cíll Dara, although as Cíll Dara is in the Gallthacht, that may be one reason why it is called Kildare. Then Bleá Cliath and Luimne would be referred to in Irish, despite being in the Gallthacht, simply because those placenames are well-known in Irish.

I wonder if the point that An Lon Dubh made recently about daraí being the genitive of dair is part of the reason why Cíll Dara is avoided - i.e., Cíll Dara appears not to mean anything (although it is actually quite straightforward in its meaning of cíll, church, dara, of (the) oak). Daraí requires explanation - it seems darach was the original genitive, and then that became interpreted as a nominative, producing its own genitive, daraí. So we end up with nominative dair and genitive daraí.

I can't find attestation of the plural of dair. I think you have crann daraí in the singular and craínn daraí in the plural. Daracha would be the CO plural - but I'm not sure it is needed, as usage with crann predominates.

I've changed the translation of "oozy" to múscánta.
I've put in "glasta" for shiny.
"wound" on and on - has become lúb ar aghaidh is ar aghaidh.

So this is my version now:

Can you explain why the past habitual is wrong here? The door opening and the visitors being enjoyed seem like regularly occuring things, not one-off events.


Same question really, the tunnel did not "go" one time, it "used to go." What am I missing here?

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Preference for the conditional, I think. Nuair a bhí mé i m'óige, rithfinn trína páirceanna ag gáire le'm mhadadh

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No - this is wrong. In English "would" is confusing, as it can have either a conditional or a past habitual meaning, but in Irish, in that sentence, you could only have the past habitual, although the pronunciation of rithinn/rithfinn would be the same.

It's difficult to talk about those sentences themselves, as d'osclaíodh an doras is wrong in more than one way. Unless the door sprouted a hand and opened itself, doors don't open themselves in Irish.

But if we lay that to one side and focus on the tense, for example:

do chuaigh an doras isteach i seómra
do théadh an doras isteach i seómra

Can you see the difference? Do chuaigh: The door went into a room - it's just past tense. Do théadh: this is habitual in the past - the door kept on going into a room. You could have a past habitual if you can add a word like gach maidean in. Do théadh an doras isteach i seómra gach maidean - every morning the door "did be" going into a room. This refers to a repeated action, and as you can see it is a nonsense.

Now if you say: d'oscladh an fear an doras ar a hocht a chlog ar maidin, agus do dhúnadh sé ar a seacht a chlog é um thráthnóna - the man used to open the door at 8 in the morning and close it at 5 in the evening. This is a repeated action in the past.

A state that is constant in the past - is not past habitual in Irish. You can read millions of words of Irish to confirm this:

Do bhí an tigh anso

While you might think it is a past habitual thing that the house "did be" there - it was just there, in just the same way that the door in the hobbit-house just led into a tunnel. There is no repeated action. You can't say do bhíodh an tigh anso .

The door "opening" here is not an event - it refers just to the fact that the door "opened" - i.e. led - into a tunnel. I have simply never seen a past habitual used by a native author to refer simply to location. Possibly in some context - a magical context - you could say do bhíodh an tigh anso ar uairibh agus agus do bhíodh sé ansan ar uairibh eile .

The translator, Nicholas Williams, is English - and by the evidence of his book not a particularly accomplished learner of Irish. A little less time devising made-up Cornish words for computer and microwave, and more time spent reading Gaeltacht literature, might be in order.

I think clár adhmaid would be understood as sheets of panelling as it is explained that it is on the walls.

Poll sa talamh / Poll faoi thalamh = both mean a hole in the ground, but possibly "faoi thalamh" implies deeper.

stróichthe - very common in Conamara.

Winding - I would say "cásann" in the same way a road winds.


(going a bit off-topic - It's interesting how we have different words for "wind". For example "cás", "lúb", "sníomh", "ceirtleáil" (wool etc), but in Conamara "wind-áil" is more common for "wind a clock" rather than the official "tochrais clog".

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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That's an interesting point about aspect.




Well you agreed on this board before that the conditional has taken over from the past habitual (and the future from the present subjunctive) in most living speech

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I can understand why you might say that, Patrick, but it's not wrong. In the Donegal Gaeltacht at least, the past habitual has been pushed to the side by the conditional (or, alternatively, 'ba ghnáth le ...), probably as a result of often similar pronunciation, possibly simply influence of English.

An example from a contemporary Gaeltacht writer:

"Bhí gnás ag na páistí teacht isteach acu achan lá ar a mbealach 'na bhaile ón scoil agus thabharfadh Hanna cupa deas tae agus píosa dá bonnóg triacla daofa."

As for the general question about the use of the gnáthchaite, well I'll let you all work it out. All I can say is that, for me, it's always been a quirky tense in literature and I've seen it used in what seem to me like weird and wonderful ways.

Slán, Domhnall

Crossed with Jay Bee

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