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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Thu 21 Nov 2013 12:26 am 
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Indeed it does. That was one of the hardest things for me at uni. I wanted to participate in advanced discussions but didn't have the vocab or structure to do it well. Used to drive me nuts!

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My Welsh is good, my Irish is just beginning.


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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Thu 21 Nov 2013 2:21 am 
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It might sound a bit unorthodox, but a great way to get over your nervousness and fear of making mistakes when speaking in a foreign language is to find some people who speak that language, go out and have a few pints.

After a pint or two, you will be chatting away and not thinking or caring about any mistakes you may be making.


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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Thu 21 Nov 2013 8:27 pm 
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I have a fear of Irish, not of sounding stupid or not knowing the words so much, obviously its a factor.

But the sound of someone speaking Irish in my vicinity brings terror to me.

This doesn't happen with other languages, where i know even less, im just feel a normal anxiety of trying to figure out what is being said. With Irish im brain doesn't listen , collapses in to a blubbering mess, even at the most basic questions.

The when i get past the terror and actually listen and understand a bit and go looking for a simple answer in my brain, I am , I am not. All I get back is 'shut up shut up shut up shut up". And even though i answer Questions in English with the verbs, I am ,im not, it was, it wasnt, etc, I keep looking for yes/no words which don't exist.

I even moved to the Gaeltacht to try and get over this, been here a year and my progress is woe full, i study 4-5 hours every day.

ach Bím ag treabhadh liom. it doesnt matter how bad at learning it I am, if I keep at it my brain will have to give in at some stage. :bash:

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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Thu 21 Nov 2013 10:03 pm 
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Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
I have a fear of Irish, not of sounding stupid or not knowing the words so much, obviously its a factor.

But the sound of someone speaking Irish in my vicinity brings terror to me.

This doesn't happen with other languages, where i know even less, im just feel a normal anxiety of trying to figure out what is being said. With Irish im brain doesn't listen , collapses in to a blubbering mess, even at the most basic questions.

The when i get past the terror and actually listen and understand a bit and go looking for a simple answer in my brain, I am , I am not. All I get back is 'shut up shut up shut up shut up". And even though i answer Questions in English with the verbs, I am ,im not, it was, it wasnt, etc, I keep looking for yes/no words which don't exist.

I even moved to the Gaeltacht to try and get over this, been here a year and my progress is woe full, i study 4-5 hours every day.

ach Bím ag treabhadh liom. it doesnt matter how bad at learning it I am, if I keep at it my brain will have to give in at some stage. :bash:


Wow...that almost sounds like you're dealing with some kind of trauma regarding the language. Bad experiences studying it growing up, perhaps? I know people who are like that with other subjects.

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Thu 21 Nov 2013 10:10 pm 
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possibly, :)

I absolutely loathed it in school. It was the bane of my life. Or at least the teachers were.
Mocking or belittling you and generally making you fear each class.

At one stage one of my teachers wouldn't let me in to the class room, just stand outside. Not because I was disruptive, but that I wasn't worth teaching.

Great method, really, massively improved my chances of learning.

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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2013 12:37 am 
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Location: Québec
Dáithí Mac Giolla. wrote:
possibly, :)

I absolutely loathed it in school. It was the bane of my life. Or at least the teachers were.
Mocking or belittling you and generally making you fear each class.

At one stage one of my teachers wouldn't let me in to the class room, just stand outside. Not because I was disruptive, but that I wasn't worth teaching.

Great method, really, massively improved my chances of learning.


Best thing is to start doing activities in Irish that you like, so that you can associate it with positive experiences and people that you like. It might take some thinking outside the box, but if you think outside the box, you can find some activities that male learning and speaking Irish a pleasure instead of a chore.


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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2013 10:27 am 
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oh I love it now.
I do about 4-5 hours study a day. then either spend most the rest of the day either listening to RnaG or TG4.

Even with all the exposure the rate of progress is far less than I had hoped. And what other people assume.
They are often surprised at my lack of ability when they are aware how long ive been at it and try to engage me in conversation.

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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2013 1:51 pm 
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Daithí, I don't know how much you do already, but I would really recommend reading and listening over grammar study and
vocab memorisation.

I know you are already listening to RnaG, e.t.c. However, my general observation is that if people study grammar abstractly
and learn vocab lists detached from context the retention rate of both is quite poor. This is essentially why we don't learn languages
well in Ireland. In schools we simply get the told:
"The Módh Coinníollach operates like this....., here is twenty words for random vegtables learn them off".

This sort of learning is useless, similar to how Latin used to be taught. On the non-listening side I would really recommend reading,
where you learn vocab and grammar in context. I can give you links to studies where double blind studies were done on language
learners who didn't read and those who did, the second group typically performs noticeably better.

Since you're learning Munster Irish, I'd recommend "Coiglimís an tine" by Bab Feiritear. Read through that and make sure you understand everything.
PM me with any questions you have. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2013 3:51 pm 
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Location: Santa Cruz Mountains, California, USA
An Lon Dubh wrote:
Daithí, I don't know how much you do already, but I would really recommend reading and listening over grammar study and
vocab memorisation.

I know you are already listening to RnaG, e.t.c. However, my general observation is that if people study grammar abstractly
and learn vocab lists detached from context the retention rate of both is quite poor. This is essentially why we don't learn languages
well in Ireland. In schools we simply get the told:
"The Módh Coinníollach operates like this....., here is twenty words for random vegtables learn them off".

This sort of learning is useless, similar to how Latin used to be taught. On the non-listening side I would really recommend reading,
where you learn vocab and grammar in context. I can give you links to studies where double blind studies were done on language
learners who didn't read and those who did, the second group typically performs noticeably better.

Since you're learning Munster Irish, I'd recommend "Coiglimís an tine" by Bab Feiritear. Read through that and make sure you understand everything.
PM me with any questions you have. :D


I'd go one step further and recommend reading aloud, at least a little each day. Not only do you get vocabulary and grammar in context, you also get semi-impromptu speaking practice ("semi-impromptu" because, while you are technically reading a "script," you're doing it without practicing it until your delivery becomes smooth...you're taking the words as they come to you, just as you would in real life). It helps to bridge the gap between comprehension and speaking.

Redwolf


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 Post subject: Re: Grrr...frustration!
PostPosted: Fri 22 Nov 2013 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Sat 18 Aug 2012 11:43 pm
Posts: 723
Location: Nua Mheicsiceo
Redwolf wrote:
I'd go one step further and recommend reading aloud, at least a little each day.
That's the good thing about Coiglímís an Tine – It comes with CD's of the entire book being read by a fluent native speaker. :)


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