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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr 2012 10:28 pm 
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Redwolf wrote:
For the most part, it's a question of dialect.

Annabeth, that is the single most important sentence to know when learning Irish! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr 2012 11:16 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
Redwolf wrote:
For the most part, it's a question of dialect.

Annabeth, that is the single most important sentence to know when learning Irish! :mrgreen:


Haha!!! Very true :S I'll get that tattooed to my forehead :darklaugh: After 3 confirmations, of course ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Tue 03 Apr 2012 11:21 pm 
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Annabeth wrote:
I'll get that tattooed to my forehead After 3 confirmations, of course

:LOL:

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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Wed 04 Apr 2012 1:06 am 
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Quote:
For the most part, it's a question of dialect.


not only

Quote:
Chuigh mé go dtí an phictiúrlann le Tommy aréir "The Hunger Games" a fheiceáil.


it means you could say
"Chuaigh mé [...] "The Hunger Games" a fheiceáil"

but you can't. If you drop the middle of the sentence (so that it's clearer in this example),

you can say either:

Chuaigh mé [...] a (dh') fheiceáil "The Hunger Games"

or

Chuaigh mé [...] le "The Hunger Games" a fheiceáil (le= in order to)

but not what you wrote: either "le" is missing or you have to change the word order. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Wed 04 Apr 2012 2:22 am 
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Cén Fáth? :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Wed 04 Apr 2012 2:47 am 
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Redwolf wrote:
Annabeth wrote:
Could you possibly break down the reason's you'd make the changes? I think I'm only lost because you're applying Grammar rules I am not familiar with. :)

For the most part, it's a question of dialect.
Redwolf

Not really, (though Lughaidh adding dialect twists on top certainly doesn't help).

What Lughaidh is trying to say is that once the intervening sentence structure becomes complex (or even just longish) you have to add le (Connacht and Ulster) or chun (Munster) to indicate the purpose.

Another way of putting it is that you can get by without le or chun in a shorter sentence but not a longer one.

It's a bit like English requiring "to" if you change the word order in the following sentence:

I sent Brian a letter.

but

I sent a letter to Brian.

I am not sure that Redwolf's sentence is actually wrong so much that it might be clearer with le.

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My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
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Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Wed 04 Apr 2012 11:13 pm 
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Okay...So is there a rough "translation" of the two sentences, with and without le? Just so I could compare.


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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr 2012 10:14 am 
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Redwolf's sentence
Chuaigh mé go dtí an phictiúrlann le Tommy aréir The Hunger Games a fheiceáil.
"Went I to the cinema with Tommy last night The Hunger Games to see."

Lugaidh's correction
Chuaigh mé go dtí an phictiúrlann le Tommy aréir le The Hunger Games a fheiceáil
"Went I to the cinema with Tommy last night with The Hunger Games to see"
"Went I to the cinema with Tommy last night for the purpose of The Hunger Games to see"

In this context, the second le/with means "in order to" or "for the purpose of."

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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Thu 05 Apr 2012 3:22 pm 
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Yeah but you have dropped a part of my message:

Quote:
it means you could say
"Chuaigh mé [...] "The Hunger Games" a fheiceáil"

...but you can't. If you drop the middle of the sentence (so that it's clearer in this example),

you can say either:

Chuaigh mé [...] a (dh') fheiceáil "The Hunger Games"
....



You can't say *"Chuaigh mé rud éigin a dhéanamh", in this case you have to use the following order:
Chuaigh mé a dhéanamh rud éigin (of in Connachta and Munster: Chuaigh mé ag déanamh rud éigin).
But not the word order Redwolf used (except if you use le/chun but then the pattern is different ).

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 Post subject: Re: Sentence Structure
PostPosted: Fri 06 Apr 2012 1:46 am 
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I think it's coming slowly. Go raibh maith agaibh :wave:


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