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 Post subject: an ua
PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2023 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1079
I'm looking at https://doegen.ie/LA_1041d1
Quote:
8. Glacann an mac a chuid den stór
Is d'imigh ar fód an bhóthair chruaidh,
An fear scaiptheach do scaip an t-ór
Bhí ina dheoidh go mór (an ua).

9. (An ua) do chaith sé seal i mbrón
Ag fear gan trócaire aige ná trua,
Ina mhuicí muc ar (uathadh lóin)
Ach an méid nár thóg na muca rua.

Can anyone guess what "an ua" means?


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2023 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 356
Location: Corcaigh
djwebb2021 wrote:
I'm looking at https://doegen.ie/LA_1041d1
Quote:
8. Glacann an mac a chuid den stór
Is d'imigh ar fód an bhóthair chruaidh,
An fear scaiptheach do scaip an t-ór
Bhí ina dheoidh go mór (an ua).

9. (An ua) do chaith sé seal i mbrón
Ag fear gan trócaire aige ná trua,
Ina mhuicí muc ar (uathadh lóin)
Ach an méid nár thóg na muca rua.

Can anyone guess what "an ua" means?


The descendent, referring back to "an mac" I would have assumed.

Though, that would mean it were being treated like a feminine noun, when ó would usually be rendered an t-ó with the article. At least that is what I would expect. I haven't often come across it. Perhaps the form ua is distinct in more ways than just spelling?


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Fri 27 Oct 2023 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1079
Ade wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
I'm looking at https://doegen.ie/LA_1041d1
Quote:
8. Glacann an mac a chuid den stór
Is d'imigh ar fód an bhóthair chruaidh,
An fear scaiptheach do scaip an t-ór
Bhí ina dheoidh go mór (an ua).

9. (An ua) do chaith sé seal i mbrón
Ag fear gan trócaire aige ná trua,
Ina mhuicí muc ar (uathadh lóin)
Ach an méid nár thóg na muca rua.

Can anyone guess what "an ua" means?


The descendent, referring back to "an mac" I would have assumed.

Though, that would mean it were being treated like a feminine noun, when ó would usually be rendered an t-ó with the article. At least that is what I would expect. I haven't often come across it. Perhaps the form ua is distinct in more ways than just spelling?



but in the context of the story of the Prodigal Son, it would be hard to understand. Of course "an ua" in this transcription from a recording could come from "ina ua" in the dative, but still, it would be "in' ó" then.


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 12:02 am 
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Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 356
Location: Corcaigh
djwebb2021 wrote:
Ade wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
I'm looking at https://doegen.ie/LA_1041d1
Quote:
8. Glacann an mac a chuid den stór
Is d'imigh ar fód an bhóthair chruaidh,
An fear scaiptheach do scaip an t-ór
Bhí ina dheoidh go mór (an ua).

9. (An ua) do chaith sé seal i mbrón
Ag fear gan trócaire aige ná trua,
Ina mhuicí muc ar (uathadh lóin)
Ach an méid nár thóg na muca rua.

Can anyone guess what "an ua" means?


The descendent, referring back to "an mac" I would have assumed.

Though, that would mean it were being treated like a feminine noun, when ó would usually be rendered an t-ó with the article. At least that is what I would expect. I haven't often come across it. Perhaps the form ua is distinct in more ways than just spelling?



but in the context of the story of the Prodigal Son, it would be hard to understand. Of course "an ua" in this transcription from a recording could come from "ina ua" in the dative, but still, it would be "in' ó" then.


Is it?

The son took his share of the wealth
and went upon the turf of the hard road
The distributing man* who had given the gold
missed (the descendant**) greatly

(The descendant***) who spent a while in sorrow
with a man* without mercy or pity
in his piggy pigs there was (little food)
only the amount the red pigs didn't take

* Both of these references I take to be to the father of the two sons.
** This I take to reference the son who left.
*** This I take as a reference to the son who remained.

All of this seems perfectly in keeping with the parable. The father seemed harsh to the son who remained, making him work hard, and eat very little so the pigs could be fattened up, meanwhile he seemed to miss the son who had left greatly. He seemed to show a preference for the prodigal son.

I am having trouble interpreting Ina mhuicí muc ar (uathadh lóin), but it's not hard to get the sense of it.


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 12:57 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1079
well, I've read the Bible, so I'm familiar with the story of the Prodigal son and it seems you are not. You've misunderstand the whole passage

Ar uathadh lóin - without much to eat.


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 1:03 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1079
Quote:
An fear scaiptheach do scaip an t-ór
Bhí ina dheoidh go mór (an ua).


This is NOT:
Quote:
The distributing man* who had given the gold
missed (the descendant**) greatly


An fear scaipitheach - the prodigal man
do scaip an t-ór - who wasted the gold
bhí 'na dheóidh go mór (an ua) - was subsequently greatly XX.


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 1:16 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1079
muicí muc: swineherd


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 1:48 am 
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Joined: Thu 22 Dec 2011 6:28 am
Posts: 356
Location: Corcaigh
djwebb2021 wrote:
well, I've read the Bible, so I'm familiar with the story of the Prodigal son and it seems you are not. You've misunderstand the whole passage

Ar uathadh lóin - without much to eat.


I couldn't care less what you've read, unless you're going to do something constructive like provide a reference to a particular verse or line in it to support your argument that I've misrepresented it. Otherwise, your understanding of it is no more valid than my own. Every child who ever went to a Christian school or church knows this parable well enough to discuss it.

I'll never understand your compulsion to be so antagonistic on here, particularly when others are devoting their time to helping you.

Even with your corrections to my translation, I fail to see how "an ua" can be anything other than "the descendant".


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 2:10 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1079
Well, as you have pointed out, ua is not pronounced ua; it is masculine; and the parable doesn't have a descendant in it. It has a brother left at home. Not a descendant and not a grandson.


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 Post subject: Re: an ua
PostPosted: Sat 28 Oct 2023 2:14 am 
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Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 1079
Ade wrote:
when others are devoting their time to helping you.


Yes, thank you for your help.

Do you get "ar uathadh lóin" now? Maybe if you replace uathadh by beagán and have "ar bheagán bídh/lóin", the meaning becomes clearer?


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