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 Post subject: my sister translation
PostPosted: Fri 09 Dec 2011 2:48 am 
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i posted this same thread about my sister and have only received one response, i would like to confirm what i received below -

Modern: mo dheirfiúr
‘Classic’: mo ḋeirḃṡiúr

Note that the modern spelling is not just a one-to-one replacement of dots with h’s: the Roman type spelling of the classical form is mo dheirbhshiúr. However, since the combination -bhsh- is read as -vh-, and since v followed by an h is basically just equivalent to an f, the modern orthography has simplified the spelling and now just writes an f instead: mo dheirfiúr.

any help is appreciated!

thanks :D


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PostPosted: Fri 09 Dec 2011 3:18 am 
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Well, it was kokoshneta who gave you those over at IGTF, so they are fairly sound.

I can also confirm them from two reliable sources:

Modern: mo dheirfiúr (Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla (Ó Dónaill, 1977))
‘Classic’: mo ḋeirḃṡiúr (Foclóir Gaedhilge agus Béarla (Dinneen, 1927))

We can show you the classic font here at ILF, also thanks to kk.

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec 2011 12:16 am 
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In case you were wondering about it, the "classical" word is a compound word, as kk pointed out. The root Irish word for sister is siúr, and it is used that way in many Irish Bibles and other older writings. The word is from an Indo-European root and is cognate with the same words in English and many other Indo-European languages. This does not mean that Irish borrowed the word. Each language got the word from its own parent language (like all Indo-European languages, Irish and English are distant cousins linguistically).

In modern Irish, siúr is mostly reserved for religious sisters or for the use of the term in the abstract (as in “we are all sisters”). At some point after the coming of Christianity, new words were created to distinguish religious brothers and sisters from “real” ones. The word deirfiúr is a compounding of dearbh (or deirbh) and siúr, meaning “blood sister” or “real sister”, and so deirfiúr is the word used now in Ireland for your sibling sister. The extra "h" which kk showed you in the compound word (in the shiúr part) happens when words are put together like that, and kk has already explained how the "f" sound then arose in deirfiúr.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec 2011 3:37 am 
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thanks guys, what about pronunciation for my "brother" & "my sister"?

thanks.....


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec 2011 3:53 am 
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my brother "mo dheartháir", pronounced roughly "moh yahr-high"
my sister "mo dheirfiúr" pronounced roughly "moh yeh-rhih-fuhr".

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec 2011 5:42 am 
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Lughaidh wrote:
my brother "mo dheartháir", pronounced roughly "moh yahr-high" (GU)
my sister "mo dheirfiúr" pronounced roughly "moh yeh-rhih-fuhr". (GU)
What Lughaidh has given is for Gaoth Dobhair, Donegal. (I presume? - it usually is with Lughaidh.)

Connemara:

mo dheartháir (mo dhreatháir)
muh yi-RHEH-hawrh
/mə γ´r´ehɑ:r´/

mo dheirfiúr (mo dhriofúr)
muh yi-RHEH-foor
/mə γ´r´efu:r/


Cois Fhairrge (Galway Seaboard):

mo dheartháir (mo dhreatháir)
muh yi-RHAWRH
/mə γ´r´ɑ:r´/

mo dheirfiúr (mo dhrio-úr)
muh yi-RHOWR
/mə γ´r´aur/

Slender r in the middle or at the end of a word in Irish has a buzz somewhat like the French j in je, which I have written as "rh" in the phonics.

Broad r is flapped like the Scottish English r (strangely enough, NOT at all like the Irish English r).

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec 2011 11:45 am 
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Quote:
What Lughaidh has given is for Gaoth Dobhair, Donegal. (I presume? - it usually is with Lughaidh.)


yeah :)
When -áir rhymes with the English word "high", it is Gaoth Dobhair Irish :mrgreen:

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Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec 2011 12:00 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
Quote:
What Lughaidh has given is for Gaoth Dobhair, Donegal. (I presume? - it usually is with Lughaidh.)


yeah :)
When -áir rhymes with the English word "high", it is Gaoth Dobhair Irish :mrgreen:

Fair enough. 8-)

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec 2011 10:59 pm 
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Breandán wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
my brother "mo dheartháir", pronounced roughly "moh yahr-high" (GU)
my sister "mo dheirfiúr" pronounced roughly "moh yeh-rhih-fuhr". (GU)
What Lughaidh has given is for Gaoth Dobhair, Donegal. (I presume? - it usually is with Lughaidh.)

Connemara:

mo dheartháir (mo dhreatháir)
muh yi-RHEH-hawrh
/mə γ´r´ehɑ:r´/

mo dheirfiúr (mo dhriofúr)
muh yi-RHEH-foor
/mə γ´r´efu:r/


Cois Fhairrge (Galway Seaboard):

mo dheartháir (mo dhreatháir)
muh yi-RHAWRH
/mə γ´r´ɑ:r´/

mo dheirfiúr (mo dhrio-úr)
muh yi-RHOWR
/mə γ´r´aur/

Slender r in the middle or at the end of a word in Irish has a buzz somewhat like the French j in je, which I have written as "rh" in the phonics.

Broad r is flapped like the Scottish English r (strangely enough, NOT at all like the Irish English r).



So what dialect pronounces 'mo dheirfiúr' as muh gri-foor? Cos that's what I'd say......

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Is foghlaimeoir mé. I am a learner. DEFINITELY wait for others to confirm and/or improve.
Beatha teanga í a labhairt.


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PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec 2011 11:40 pm 
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Saoirse wrote:
Breandán wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
my brother "mo dheartháir", pronounced roughly "moh yahr-high" (GU)
my sister "mo dheirfiúr" pronounced roughly "moh yeh-rhih-fuhr". (GU)
What Lughaidh has given is for Gaoth Dobhair, Donegal. (I presume? - it usually is with Lughaidh.)

Connemara:

mo dheartháir (mo dhreatháir)
muh yi-RHEH-hawrh
/mə γ´r´ehɑ:r´/

mo dheirfiúr (mo dhriofúr)
muh yi-RHEH-foor
/mə γ´r´efu:r/


Cois Fhairrge (Galway Seaboard):

mo dheartháir (mo dhreatháir)
muh yi-RHAWRH
/mə γ´r´ɑ:r´/

mo dheirfiúr (mo dhrio-úr)
muh yi-RHOWR
/mə γ´r´aur/

Slender r in the middle or at the end of a word in Irish has a buzz somewhat like the French j in je, which I have written as "rh" in the phonics.

Broad r is flapped like the Scottish English r (strangely enough, NOT at all like the Irish English r).



So what dialect pronounces 'mo dheirfiúr' as muh gri-foor? Cos that's what I'd say......

None. Since the dh is slender, it should sound like a y in any dialect. ;)

_________________

WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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