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PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2012 12:55 am 
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Mick expressed interest in an online study group in another thread (here) for the old Teach Yourself Irish (TYI) by Myles Dillon and Donncha Ó Cróinín so I've set up a new thread for the study of that text.

To participate I'd recommend going to the following link and downloading the files there, which includes a searchable pdf and the sound files:

http://www.corkirish.com/wordpress/why-cork-irish

You can thank that old fellow Dave that everyone thought was crazy for being mad enough to sit down and do all the hard work for us. Dave actually wrote to the publisher and got confirmation that it was out of publication and not likely to be reprinted.

The course is Munster Irish, particularly the West Muskerry subdialect and has sound files by native Gaeltacht speakers of the dialect.

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WARNING: Intermediate speaker - await further opinions, corrections and adjustments before acting on my advice.
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2012 10:25 am 
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Cé atá ann?

Thanks to Breandán for setting up this thread, and finding the link to the book and mp3s. Is everyone okay with doing one lesson per week? Or would you rather a slower or faster pace?

I'm thinking Tuesday is a good day to make a start on lesson 1. That will give people a few days to spot this thread and download the files. (For me, Tuesday also has the advantage of being the most boring night of the week, so it's a good night for studying.)

In the meantime, it might be a good idea for everyone to read through part 1 of the book. There's no need to memorise everything there. It's all stuff that can be referred back to later while we're working through the actual lessons (which are in part 2).

Just my suggestions on how to get started. If anyone has any better ideas, speak up.

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Táim ag foghlaim fós. Fáilte roimh gach aon cheartúchán.


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PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2012 11:06 am 
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Location: BÁC, Éire
That Dave was a mad bastard, did he type all of the book out? He's even corrected errors in the book. Lunatic, but fair play if it weren't his OCD I wouldn't have the book.

I'll give it a whirl, not sure if I will stick with it though as I am doing another book too. Are we just going to hang out here next Tuesday and invite questions throughout the week?

If anyone wants to practice speaking perhaps we could just spend 10 minutes a week doing the exercises on skype/facetime? I see the first two exercises are translating Irish to English, someone could read no.1 and the other translate to english, then swap round for no. 2 etc. That would help us understand the Irish. Then we can do the same thing for the English>Irish exercises. PM me your skype or facetime if anyone is interested and we will work out a time etc.


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PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2012 11:33 am 
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Somhairle Óg wrote:
Are we just going to hang out here next Tuesday and invite questions throughout the week?

That's the general idea. An Lon Dubh also has some notes to share.

Somhairle Óg wrote:
If anyone wants to practice speaking perhaps we could just spend 10 minutes a week doing the exercises on skype/facetime? I see the first two exercises are translating Irish to English, someone could read no.1 and the other translate to english, then swap round for no. 2 etc. That would help us understand the Irish. Then we can do the same thing for the English>Irish exercises. PM me your skype or facetime if anyone is interested and we will work out a time etc.

I only just upgraded my computer, and have facetime on it now. Haven't signed up or tried it out yet. There's no charge for using it right? Just the normal cost for broadband? And I have free phone calls to 02 if that helps.

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Táim ag foghlaim fós. Fáilte roimh gach aon cheartúchán.


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PostPosted: Wed 08 Aug 2012 2:20 pm 
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yeah facetime is free it's pretty nifty, just skype for geeks. I'm on meteor with f-all for €50 a month


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PostPosted: Thu 09 Aug 2012 12:40 am 
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Go raibh maith agat Breandán- do bheadh sé deacar é so a dhéana' gan an leabhar go háirithe nuair na fuil an leabhar i gcló. Ba mhaith liomsa ' bheith páirteach chón maith/ chomh maith. Cad é an plean don Mháirt- cuid a haon don leabhar a léamh agus díospóireacht bheag ar san nú cuid a haon a léamh agus ' bheith tosnaithe ar an dtarna cuid don leabhair?

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Is Fearr súil romhainn ná ḋá ṡúil inár ndiaiḋ
(Amhlaoibh Ó Súilleabháin)

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Thu 09 Aug 2012 12:48 pm 
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Ba mhaith liomsa tosnú a dhéanamh le páirt 2 Dé Máirt. Ach arbh fhearr leat stadéir a dhéanamh le páirt 1 ar dtús?

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Táim ag foghlaim fós. Fáilte roimh gach aon cheartúchán.


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PostPosted: Thu 09 Aug 2012 1:08 pm 
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Mick wrote:
Ba mhaith liomsa tosnú a dhéanamh le páirt 2 Dé Máirt. Ach arbh fhearr leat stadéir a dhéanamh le páirt 1 ar dtús?

Aontaím leat, tosnóimís leis an gcéad cheacht sa tarna páirt.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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PostPosted: Thu 09 Aug 2012 3:00 pm 
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Is féidir linn caint faoi páirt 1 anois, roimh an Mháirt.

Quote:
From page 9: One sound about which a special note is required is r. It is always trilled, never flapped or silent as in English. For broad r there is no further difficulty, but slender r is difficult for English speakers. It approaches the sound of z. (In some dialects it has almost become z.)

This piece stood out in my mind for two reasons. First, the book says that broad r is "always trilled." I don't think "trilled" is the right word here. I would call it a "tapped" or "flapped" r. (The book says it's "never flapped" but I think they're using these words differently to how I would use them. I'm not saying the book is wrong here, just that the terms they're using are a bit confusing.)

The book says that slender r "has almost become z" in some dialects. I think they could be talking about Connemara dialects here. Even though I prefer Munster Irish, I found that listening to Connemara speakers really helped me to pick up the sound of the slender r. Am I right in thinking that the "z" sound is very subtle in Munster, and that the r is a lot closer to (but not the same as) an English r?

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Táim ag foghlaim fós. Fáilte roimh gach aon cheartúchán.


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PostPosted: Thu 09 Aug 2012 4:08 pm 
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Mick wrote:
Is féidir linn caint faoi páirt 1 anois, roimh an Mháirt.

Quote:
From page 9: One sound about which a special note is required is r. It is always trilled, never flapped or silent as in English. For broad r there is no further difficulty, but slender r is difficult for English speakers. It approaches the sound of z. (In some dialects it has almost become z.)

This piece stood out in my mind for two reasons. First, the book says that broad r is "always trilled." I don't think "trilled" is the right word here. I would call it a "tapped" or "flapped" r. (The book says it's "never flapped" but I think they're using these words differently to how I would use them. I'm not saying the book is wrong here, just that the terms they're using are a bit confusing.)

Yeah, you're right. The broad "r" is tapped, not trilled in the middle of a word. At the beginning of a word it has a slightly different sound for older speakers where it can sound like a trill. I'll try recording myself doing it.

Quote:
The book says that slender r "has almost become z" in some dialects. I think they could be talking about Connemara dialects here. Even though I prefer Munster Irish, I found that listening to Connemara speakers really helped me to pick up the sound of the slender r. Am I right in thinking that the "z" sound is very subtle in Munster, and that the r is a lot closer to (but not the same as) an English r?

Not only is it more subtle, but often slender r becomes broad r. At the end of words if the next word begins with t,d,s or l for example. I might as well write a long post on the Munster "r" if that would be of interest to anybody.

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The dialect I use is Munster Irish, particularly Cork Irish, so words or phrases I use might not be correct for other areas.:D

Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal


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