It is currently Fri 03 Jul 2026 10:40 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr 2013 2:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2436
Well he didn't do that dictionary alone... maybe it isn't he who chose that stuff.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr 2013 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 6:15 pm
Posts: 3594
Location: An Astráil
Lughaidh, I don't disagree with you and Bríd on this, but the evidence you have been presenting only indicates that there is a tendency amongst _some_ native speakers in _some_ dialects to prefer the genitive form. It doesn't show that the entire Gaeltacht is completely against all of the prefixed forms and wants them stopped as you seem to be repeatedly asserting.

So, even though I agree that the genitive forms have a certain elegance compared to the prefixed forms, I don't think you should be stopping entire threads about it and constantly trying to deny others their right to an opinion (which was the only reason that I stepped into this discussion in the first place.)

As things currently stand in the language, there are two correct forms coexisting side-by-side, one by popular usage and the other by historical usage. As Rossaí has pointed out, many of the prefixed forms already exist as "set phrases" in literature, etc., from way back, and as Braoin has pointed out, some of the newer ones are controversial, but they do both follow definite rules of the language (unlike the outright mistakes which were the original thrust of mhwombat's thread here before it was (also) hijacked.)

You've registered your and some native speakers distaste for them, but there is no point in getting overly emphatic about it. Until you can prove that native speakers are completely against the prefixed forms, your opinion remains just that, an opinion not fact.

If you want to stop the top-down assertion of new prefixed words, you need to get together a group of like-minded academic Gaeltacht speakers and then conduct surveys amongst speakers in the Gaeltachtaí of the major dialects to prove that there is a wide-spread preference amongst native speakers for the genitive forms and that that preference should be represented in the official vocabulary at least by equal recognition, if not formal replacement of the prefixed forms with genitive forms.

I would even go a step further and suggest that you start compiling a list of all of word pairs, galfchúrsa versus cúrsa gailf, etc., and then conduct a survey to have Gaeltacht natives express their preference for one form or the other (or both or other) for each word pair. Then compile the actual data and petition the official committee for recognition of the Gaeltacht preference.

In other words, if you really feel the Gaeltacht speakers are so against the prefixed forms, help them to speak out about it officially. If the Gaeltacht speakers really feel as strongly as you suggest, then it shouldn't be any problem to motivate them into participating in your survey.

To do this constructively on our forum, perhaps you might like to start another thread to work on a list of such alternatives and link it to a working copy in a spreadsheet file so that you end up with a comprehensive list of (possibly) dubious prefixed forms and suggestions for alternative genitive forms that will form the basis for the above survey/poll of Gaeltacht natives at a later date.

In the meantime, mhwombat has politely asked that this side discussion be dropped so that we can return to the original discussion of fixing mistakes that are incontrovertibly wrong - in one of the (for the time being) two correct ways of fixing them. Please respect her request and refrain from hijacking the thread.

_________________
Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 23 Apr 2013 8:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 01 Sep 2011 9:55 am
Posts: 2114
Location: 91 - France
Just to go back to what Wombat was saying, I've just seen this -
www.pencils.co.uk/heritage.aspx?mid=1254
Wouldn't have been easier to say a lead pencil rather than a graphite pencil? Presumably they would have known that it wasn't quite the same thing.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 487 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group