I am wondering whether I can Munsterise the Hobbit.

The existing translation has in paragraph one:



This has some problems:

1. There is no Irish word "hobad". I support using loan words in italics.
2. The first sentence feels non-idiomatic. Irish defines what you're talking about and then comment on it (tá daoine ann, agus is dóigh leó go..., or is é is dóigh leó ná go - instead of is dóigh le daoine go....)
3. Lán le? Does this exist in Irish?
4. How common a word is stróichthe?
5. Le n-ithe ná suí síos air - doesn't "le" need to be repeated? Without repeating "le" it feels as if the "air" applies to "ithe" too. Le n-ithe air?

What do people think of this for a Munster attempt?



What is the idiomatic Connacht version? and the idiomatic Ulster version?

I'm changing the last bit from "agus is ionann san agus cúmpórd" to "agus mar sin ana-chúmpórd ann". I think it is possible to get this text into better Irish.

My version now:

The next bit in the existing translation is:



The main problem here is the incorrect use of the past habitual in d'osclaíodh and thaitníodh. The translator was an English learner, and for some reason liked the past habitual (French influence?)

I would suggest:



I think it's fine to say "dath" and not "péint", as "uaithne" implies an unnatural green anyway. Doors don't "open themselves" in Irish - and so I said "the door took you into a hall". Sorchóireach - seemed to me to be an odd word - and so was junked. Brat - is fine for carpet without the anglophone word used. Snasta - no translation for "polished" was given in the existing translation, but I have given one. I also didn't like "thaitníodh cuairteoirí leis", as the meaning is "the hobbit liked receiving visitors" - not that he liked the visitors. It's the visits he liked. The existing translation seems confused on many points, and so I have changed that.

look forward to reading the full version

What do other languages do for words such as Hobbit ?
Are many words borrowed and transformed in this way any more, rather than the English version being used with Irish grammar rules?

for example , mo shuitcase, mo bhicycle .

_________________
Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Also: róchruínn means "perfectly round". It is not necessary to say cruinn ciorclach.

I don't know what other language versions have.

Dáithí, are my translations idiomatic? That was the real thing I was hoping to discuss in this thread.

well to my limited knowledge it does seem more idiomatic. Bearing in mind Ive only really read2 books by bhab feirtéar .

I was wondering would Fé thalamh not express more the Hobbits home being physically under the ground?
As sa talamh can also mean in the land ? To me it doesn't necessarily express the important point of it being under the ground .
which the story then goes on to clarify it not being a dirty hole.

Im sure you're correct though, but hearing why will help me remember it:)

_________________
Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

also would clár not be a more suitable word than Painéil ?

_________________
Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Poll sa talamh - is frequently found in literature.

Clár - possibly. But clár also means "table, shelf", and so I am reluctant to introduce it. But anyway, interested to see what others think too on this.

Checking the "other languages" links from the Wikipedia article Hobbit" gives us the following (note that some of these are singular, some are plural):
Bosnian: hobiti
Catalan: hòbbit
Czech: hobit
Danish: hobbit
German: hobbit
Estonian: kääbikud
Spanish: hobbits
Esperanto: hobito
French: hobbit
etc etc
and the Swedish is "hober"

So most are directly from the English, even to the point of breaking their own spelling rules ("hobbits" is utterly impossible in natural Spanish).

But anyhow, why borrow from English a word that is really just an anglicised transcription of a non-English, fictional language? The function of the spelling in the book was to make the word readily pronounceable to the reader, nothing more, nothing less. (Although the same obviously cannot be said of Elvish, Orcish etc.)

Borrowing a native English word is all well and good, but borrowing English to use as a auxiliary phonetic spelling embedded in Irish seems silly.

The spelling "hobad", despite it's initial H, does work well, because it can take an immediately obvious genitive: taigh hobaid. Trying to inflect "hobbit" would be more tricky. Do you broaden the final vowel? That rule applies to a closed set of words, so it wouldn't be recognised. Besides, by using the English form, it's going to be pronounced as English with a broad T, so you can't broaden it phonetically anyway. Add E -- hobbite? Again, the English spelling is going to interfere here, and it's also going to make it look like a feminine word, which seems an unlikely gender for a species of person in the context of Gaelic's masculine-dominant grammar.

Or do you just leave the word in italics the whole time, using an English plural, and continue pushing the idea to young readers that Irish isn't a complete language...?

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.