Conas atá sibh?

Can someone help me with this question please.

What is the correct way to write our names in Gaedhilge to include our Clan Title?

For example in English mine would be : Cathal of the Clan Déiseach

So in Gaelic is it correct to say : Cathal O Chlann Déiseach

Is there a séimhiú in 'Clann' as written above?

I no long subscribe to the use of the 'Mr' title forced on my ancestors at gun point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr.

"Historically, mister was applied only to those above one's own status if they had no higher title such as Sir or my lord in the English class system. That understanding is now obsolete, as it was gradually expanded as a mark of respect to those of equal status and then to all men without a higher style.

In the 19th century and earlier in Britain, two gradations of "gentleman" were recognised; the higher was entitled to use "esquire" (usually abbreviated to Esq, which followed the name), and the lower employed "Mr" before the name. Today, on correspondence from Buckingham Palace, a man who is a UK citizen is addressed with post-nominal "Esq", and a man of foreign nationality is addressed with prefix "Mr"."

Clann doesn’t actually mean "clan" in Irish.
You won’t find "clan" in the major Irish-English dictionary: https://www.teanglann.ie/en/fgb/clan

Clann means children, offspring.
Nevertheless it is used in names of some clans/septs/tribes/families (besides cineal, dál, corca, síol, Uí etc.)
But the Decies are simply "na Déise" or "na Déisigh" without any such noun, as far as I know (which isn’t very far in this respect, I must admit ).

So: Cathal na nDéise, Cathal na nDéiseach, Cathal, fear na nDéise or similar.

Táim, Labhrás gave you a good answer there.
By the way, it is completely false to claim that anyone was forced to use the word "Mr" at gunpoint. What is true is that Irish parents used to punish their children for speaking Irish - in order to try to advance them in life by forcing them to speak English (the language spoken in the Irish cities where the opportunities were).

Go raibh míle maith agat. Yes from what I know "na nDéise" was a name given to a tribe of people from a specific geographical location / domain / district on this island of Ériu, rather than a "Surname" that are of a specific family.

https://celt.ucc.ie/published/T302005.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expulsion_of_the_Déisi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalcassians

Claíomh Solais

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cla%C3%ADomh_Solais


These are the definitions I have for Clann form Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla - Niall Ó Dónaill 1977...

Clann - 1. - Children, offspring ~ Mac, iníonachta

Clann - 2. - a Gael, the Gaels ~ a Néill, the race of Niall. (Usually in reference to Mac - surnames)

Clann - 3. - Followers

Clann - 4. - Lit: Plant

Clann - 5. - (Of hair) Lock

Clann - 6. - Weaving: Two interlocked threads on warping frame


http://www.irishidentity.com/names/d.htm

Dease - Déise
Deasey - Déiseach
Deasy - Mac an Déisigh (Sligeach)

From the same dictionary I get the following translations

Déiseach - a Native of the Decies
Déisigh : Déiseach
Déise : Déis
Déis : 1. Tenant, vassal 2. Rent-paying community 3. Domain, district.
Déis : Dias
Dias : 1. Ear of Corn, ear of wheat, of barley 2. Spike 3. (Of weapon) Point ~ claímh, point of sword. Arm déise, pointed weapon. 4. (Of person) Scion


I would still like to know what if I wanted to put the word 'Clann' into my name as a Title of Gaelic distinction from the English 'Mr' Title then does it have a séimhiú?

Which of the following is most correct...

Cathal O Chlann Déiseach
Cathal O Clann Déiseach
Cathal Chlann Déiseach
Cathal Clann Déiseach

or after your generous contribution which of the following...

Cathal Chlann na nDéiseach
Cathal Clann na nDéiseach

The "clan" thing is just wrong. The Irish surname Déiseach is just that - Wolfe (a famous compiler of a book on Irish surnames) wrote that Déiseach is a descriptive word that supplanted the original surname.

You could say: XX ó mhuintir Dhéiseach - this is not a surnname, but means "from the Deasy family".

It feels like few Irish people are interested in the language as such, and they are prepared to mangle it. Your surname is Déiseach, and nothing else. No ó, no mac, no clann, no anything, just Déiseach.

Déis meant "vassal, subject", and is likely to have referred to a certain social class in ancient Ireland. They would have had a surname once - presumably - it depends on the time period - but then it stuck that some of these were just called "the Vassal". And it became like a modern surname, Deasy. But was no "clan". In fact, these people were subject people, probably not much better than slaves.

The Dál gCais dynasty (Dalcassians) were called Clann Chais because they claimed descent from a legendary king of Munster, Cormac Cas. Clann Chais thus means "offspring of Cas". And Dál gCais means "sept of Cas". For Clann to be used- you would need the name of an ancestor. And Clann Chais is not a surname.

An Déiseach or Mac an Déisigh is the Irish equivalent of "Mr Deasey."

Of your versions, Cathal Chlann na nDéiseach is at least grammatically not totally wrong. Though it still doesn’t make much sense.

Déiseach is an interesting surname in that it is one of the few adjectival surnames in the Irish language. Some others are Cinnsealach and Breathnach. I think there are a few others again that don't end in "ach".

It's also unusual in that it's one of the few Irish toponymic surnames. The vast majority of indigenous surnames are patronymic. But as Djwebb indicated, it was possibly originally appended to a patronymic surname, with the patronymic component eventually being dropped.

Personally, I think giving your name as something like "Cathal Chlann na nDéiseach" comes across as fanciful and contrived and there is no historical basis for it. If your surname is Déiseach, then that should be sufficient. "Cathal Chlann na nDéiseach" has shades of "John of the family Smith" See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_o ... nd#Beliefs.

Yes, Caoilthe, I thought of the Freeman on the Land as well. They like to use a colon as in John:Smith, to show they are refusing to "legally incorporate" themselves via a surname.

If anyone wants to recover their heritage, especially someone who originally claimed in this thread that his ancestors were forced to use the title "Mr" at gunpoint!!!, the only way to do it is to accept the real Irish language as it is and adopt the genuine Irish language, not to make up these titles out of thin air.

I would love to know the true history of all these words they would be very revealing as to our true origins, many researchers see the human race were / are a slave race to the Anunnaki, gold miners. Names and words can reveal far more about our true history than digging up the ground in search of artifacts.

https://www.ancient-origins.net/opinion ... eda-003014

https://cogniarchae.com/2020/04/25/pers ... o-danaans/

Tuatha Dé Danann - the people of the god Danú or Tuatha Dé Anu - the people of the god Anu.

I need the Title - Cathal Chlann na nDéiseach to make the distinction that I am a descendant of the slave clan of Danú rather than Mr. Cathal Deasy which I bear no affiliation or the remotest desire to have upon my being in any way shape or form, so be it.

The 'Irish' language is corrupted anyway, did you write the following article?

https://corkirish.wordpress.com/why-cork-irish/

and this comment?

"Why Diarmuid Ó Sé thinks the Irish language is called “Gaeilge” I am not sure – that form is clearly derived from the old spelling Gaedhilge, which is the genitive. The base form should be Gaedhilg (Gaoluinn). Anyway, the book is great, but as you are in Kerry, are you making regular visits to the Gaedhealtacht?"

What is this 'Ireland'?

What is this 'Irish' language?

Who are the 'Irish'?

The island was given to the invaders under the condition it would be called after the previous inhabitants, Ériu was the chosen name which means Sovereignty not 'Ireland' which means nothing to the Gaels. The language is Gaedhilg not 'Irish' that's meaningless and the people are the Gaels not 'Irish', Irish again is a meaningless word or seafóid.