I have some notes i took which i dont quite understand,

Under Idir i have the following combinations for personal pronouns

eadarainn, eatarainn
eadaraibh ,eataraibh
eatartha, eatarthu

I didnt record where i took them from or the difference between them .
I know the first line is Sinn, then Sibh and Siad. But is there any other difference between the two forms I recoded ?

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Only plural forms are used of course, I think the differences are dialectical.
Standard
eadrainn
eadraibh
eatarthu
Munster
eadarainn, eatarainn
eadaraibh, eataraibh
eatartha
Ulster
ead(a)rainn
ead(a)raibh
eat(a)rthu
Connacht
eatrainn
eatraí
eatrab

Brilliant thanks.

Out of curiosity does anyone know if the singular forms are used anywhere anymore?

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

I'd like to know how they were used -like as in 'between myself and yourself', or what?!!!

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"anymore"?

I suspect that the singular forms in certain books were just made up by grammarians trying to make a symmetrical pattern.

As I understand it, a prepositional pronoun is only used when it replaces the entire prepositional phrase, so you cannot, for instance, say "eatarainn agus sibh". See for example the phrase "Dia idir sinn agus an anachain/an t-olc/gach olc". Old phrases like that are more likely to be preserved in a very old form than take on new grammatical forms (eg English "albeit", "so be it" preserve the now-defunct subjunctive use of "be", also preserved in Jack and the Beanstalk's "be he alive or be he dead" = modern "regardless of whether he is alive or dead").

So traditionally, you probably couldn't have said *Dia eadarainn agus an t-olc, otherwise that would be the attested form that people remembered and would still be in use today, therefore we wouldn't expect to see *Dia eadaraim[or whatever the supposed form is][/i] agus an t-olc[/i].

Structurally, this makes sense, because "and" in any language needs to take two elements of the same class, and the rest is still of the same class.

eg
I have a house and garden -- the and takes "house" and "garden", both nouns, and the "a" sits outside the "and": -- I have a ((house) and (garden))

[i]I have a house and a garden -- the and takes "a house" and "a garden", both complete noun phrases: -- I have ((a house) and (a garden))

And that's not just true of nouns:
My house is ((red) and (brown)) -- 2 x adjective (predicative) = adjective (attributive)
It is a ((red) and (brown)) house -- 2 x adjective (attributive) = adjective (attributive)
I ((punched) and (kicked) him -- 2 x verb (in the same tense) = verb (same tense again)
I ((punched him in the face) and (kicked him in the nuts)) -- 2 x complement = complement
((I punched him in the face) and (my friend grabbed his wallet)) -- 2 x clause = clause

That kind of splitting just isn't possible with prepositional pronouns.

I mean, how would you split *eataraim agus thúsa? There is no balance, so conjunction is possible. Therefore I see no possible way of employing a non-plural prepositional pronoun of "idir".

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

The singular forms are found in Bedell's Bible, translated by native speakers in the 17th century:

Gn9:12: Aguſ a duḃaiɼt Día, agſo coṁaɼṫa an ċunnaɼṫa do ním eadɼum féin aguſ ſiḃſi aguſ gaċ uile ċɼétúiɼ béo dá ḃfuil maille ɼiḃ, a ngeinealaċuiḃ ſíoɼɼuiḋe.

Which means:

Genesis 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

I could swear I saw Duinnín mention them and say they were now rare, at the time he was writing.

Things change and get forgotten, thats how we various different dialects rather than middle Irish.

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Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Eadram féin agus sibhse feels odd to me - as if "idir" is only really governing one of the pronouns. Compare "le Bríd agus le Cáit". Idir me féin agus sibhse doesn't have the same awkwardness, because idir seems to govern the entire phrase (me féin agus sibhse).

Duinnín does mention them as being quite rare. They probably mostly died out around the mid-17th century. You see them quite a bit in Céitinn and popular writings from the late 16th century.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

That does sound odd.



for keeping a secret we say "idir mé féin is tú féin". You'd probably call that idiomatic.
You can also say "coinnigh eatarainn é".



"eatarainn agus sibh" - also sounds odd. Even in English is "us and you" correct? If 3 or more are in a group it automatically becomes "us". Maybe I'm not understanding that.

"Dia idir sinn agus an t-olc" - other than "sinn" which is used mostly in prayer I don't see anything different about that.

Bhí abhainn idir muid is an bád. There was a river between us and the boat.
Roinneoidh muid an bille eatarainn. - We will share the bill between us.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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