OK then if I was to say: Thug mé iarracht ar bogadh as an tslí (I tried to get out of the way) and this is obviously in the past tense, then in what context can I use D'iarr without it just being bad Irish. That confuses me a little since it seems you 'give' things a try much like paying someone a visit: Thug mé cuirt ar mo cholceathracha san Spidéal samhra seo caite.

Would you only use D'iarr when saying you had asked someone something?: D'iarr mé Oisín faoi an cluiche ag harla maidin amarach (I asked Oisín about the game happening tomorrow morning)

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Caithimíd dul siar chun teacht aniar.

one uses "iarr" when you ask someone to do something, not when you ask a question
"D'iarr mé ar Oisín cuidiú liom" (I asked Oisín to help me)

"chuir mé ceist ar Oisín faoin gcluife a dhíonfar (?) maidin amáireach"...

Ulaidh: chuir mé ceist ar Oisín fá dtaobh don chluiche a ghéanfar (?) maidin amárach
(tarlaigh sounds strange to me in this context, but i don't know if "déan" is the best either)

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne

Maybe:

don chluiche a bheas ann maidin amárach?

or maybe just:

don chluiche maidin amárach?

Slán,

Domhnall

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Ultach mé agus Gaeilg Uladh a labhraim go measardha maith!

I see what you mean, but they're basically the same word with the same meaning. What I really wanted to point out was that you don't have to have ar with iarracht or iarraidh to mean 'make an attempt' like you suggested. In Ulster Irish, you could also say, rinn sé iarracht é sin a dhéanamh, without the preposition. As often, these little things come down to dialect and it's worth pointing that out.

Slán,

Domhnall

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Ultach mé agus Gaeilg Uladh a labhraim go measardha maith!

Have you done primary research in Tobar na Gaedhilge on this point? Can you quote results from that?

I don't know whether rinn sé iarracht é sin a dhéanamh is correct Ulster Irish or not - and although you tell me it is, i would still feel more comfortable knowning that this was based on primary research in the key authors of Ulster Irish. The phrase é sin a dheánamh appears to be out of construction totally - and the only way I can understand the sentence - is by resorting to English, of which the sentence appears to be a direct translation.

Can you be clear what you mean by Ulster Irish? Do you mean traditional Ulster Irish as spoken in the Donegal Gaeltacht and exemplified by the works of the Grianna brothers? Or you mean Irish as spoken by learners in Belfast and Londonderry, and in particular the Shaws Road Gaeltacht? There is a difference - although someone people might gloss both as "Ulster Irish".

I'm not saying you're wrong - I don't know - I'm just trying to find out the level of research that has gone into your statement that iarracht is not followed by "ar" in Ulster Irish.

Haven't been able to get Tobar up and working on my linux system recently. I'll have a look later on another machine to find you examples. And yes, when I say Ulster Irish, I mean the Donegal Gaeltacht - I thought I made that clear in my previous post. God knows I wouldn't provoke you by invoking Derry or Belfast speakers! Like I said, iarracht is iarraidh in Donegal and that's the way you'll find that expression (thug sé iarraidh) on Tobar (can't you have a look yourself?), but I hear iarracht a dhéanamh too. Both are often found without ar, or sometimes with.

Slán,

Domhnall


Edit - just checked on Tobar and there are many examples, such as: "Tháinig an sagart chun tosaigh agus thug sé iarraidh é a mhealladh ar shiubhal".

The writers of the period covered by Tobar rarely used iarracht in this way, but modern Donegal speakers sometimes do. An example from Róise Ní Bhaoill (from Rann na Feirste): '“Tuigim daoibh,” arsa Aindí agus rinne sé iarracht é féin a fhollú ar chúl iris teilifíse.'

One last edit! - One important point, Patrick: when I get a chance to use the Tobar I'm always reminded of what an extraordinary resource it is, especially for Ulster Irish. But as for modern Irish as it's spoken today by native speakers in Donegal, it's not always reliable, simply because the majority of the corpus material is at least 70 years old. I hear phrases and expressions very often spoken by native Donegal speakers, on the radio or when I spend time there in the summer, and they're not to be found in Tobar, even when adapting to old spelling in searches. So the O Grianna brothers' works are an important reference point for me, but for proper familiarity with modern Gaeltacht speech you need to communicate with and listen to modern Gaeltacht speakers.

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Ultach mé agus Gaeilg Uladh a labhraim go measardha maith!

Thanks for looking that up, An Braonach. What is your vocative - a Bhraonaigh!?

So you managed to find examples. I couldn't look it up myself, as I can't use Tobar na G. on my computer, and I contacted Ciarán who runs Tobar about it, but I haven't managed to get it working.

It is light on Munster - although I suspect Ciarán could put the works recently transcribed by RIA in it, but I would like it to work, so that I can occasionally check things.

I imagine that if I were studying Ulster Irish, I would aim to copy everything in the Grianna brothers' Irish, regardless of whether it is imithe as cainnt an lá 'thá 'niubh ann or not.

Bhuel, Domhnall an t-ainm baiste atá orm.


Agus ní dhéanfadh sé dochar ar bith duit!

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Ultach mé agus Gaeilg Uladh a labhraim go measardha maith!