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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013 9:23 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
"As far as I am concerned" doesn't mean what you think it means (ie it's not "en tant que moi").


I think Lúghaidh meant "quant à moi"


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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013 9:49 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
:yes:


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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013 10:09 pm 
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Oops... maybe I should have spent less time trying to learn Corsican and focused on the French while I was out there...

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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013 10:19 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
Bonghjurnu Cumu và ? Và bè ? ;)


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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Thu 12 Dec 2013 10:41 pm 
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franc 91 wrote:
Bonghjurnu Cumu và ? Và bè ? ;)

Ma 91 un hè Corsica... un capiscu micca...

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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013 12:00 am 
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And dom can be dómh in parts of Ireland, and domsa can be dómhsa. Just in case the OP hasn't seen those.

As far as I know (not very far) the fact there is an emphatic suffix means that the English style of raising your voice for emphasis is not the way in Irish. Is liomsa é - is emphatic enough to not require shouting. In English, it's MINE requires you to get aerated! [I nearly wrote "aereated", but that is not recognised as word in the dictionaries, but in line with our dialectal enthusiasm here seems to be what many people say... ]


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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013 3:04 am 
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patrickjwalsh wrote:
As far as I know (not very far) the fact there is an emphatic suffix means that the English style of raising your voice for emphasis is not the way in Irish.


Irish, Welsh, Breton, French and Portuguese as part of a "Western Atlantic linguistic area" (WEHR 1998, 2001)

Features:
- grammaticalization of copula (reduction of inflection/concord)
- weekly polysythetic
- phrase accent, 'mot phonétique', emphasis of single words through stress accent impossible
- extensive use of cleft constructions for pragmatic purposes
- Due to Celtic substratum?

http://www.fachtagung.dk/handouts/110.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013 5:33 pm 
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Jay Bee wrote:
- phrase accent, 'mot phonétique', emphasis of single words through stress accent impossible

That one's a bit of a push... Portuguese and French aren't particularly special in this regard as most of the Romance languages (languages descended from Latin) approach emphasis in a similar way. Most of these languages have optional pronouns that would be dropped in "mé"-like situations, but included in "mise"-like situations (some boundary cases vary). French isn't "pro-drop" in this way (because while the others conjugate verbs to indicate person and number, spoken French has lost a lot of this, so the pronouns have become mandatory for clarity), but it's still easier to justify the emphasis-by-word thing as a feature of the language family than a borrowing from Celtic.

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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013 5:43 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
That one's a bit of a push... Portuguese and French aren't particularly special in this regard as most of the Romance languages (languages descended from Latin) approach emphasis in a similar way. Most of these languages have optional pronouns that would be dropped in "mé"-like situations, but included in "mise"-like situations (some boundary cases vary). French isn't "pro-drop" in this way (because while the others conjugate verbs to indicate person and number, spoken French has lost a lot of this, so the pronouns have become mandatory for clarity), but it's still easier to justify the emphasis-by-word thing as a feature of the language family than a borrowing from Celtic.


Maybe est-ce que is being interpreted as a copula fronting - although to say that French was similar to Irish in this respect would seem to be a huge stretch.


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 Post subject: Re: dom/domsa
PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013 6:40 pm 
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patrickjwalsh wrote:
NiallBeag wrote:
Maybe est-ce que is being interpreted as a copula fronting - although to say that French was similar to Irish in this respect would seem to be a huge stretch.

I'd list that one under "grammaticalisation of copula", the first item on Jay Bee's list.
All questions in Irish have an implied copula -- hence the use of conjunctions before the main verb.
The French "est-ce que"/"Qu'est-ce que"/etc construction is one of only 2 Celtic-like features of French that I haven't encountered in other Romance languages. (The other being "à" (="ag") in possession, but I'm sure I've read a non-Celtic theory for that one at some point -- I just don't remember what it was.)

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