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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec 2013 3:50 pm 
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patrickjwalsh wrote:
Luke, how far are you from Ráth Cairn Gaeltacht? Can you go there? Also: as they speak Connemara Irish in Ráth Cairn, maybe you can learn that - and all the recordings from Bríd Mhór here will be great for you - you will just be able to copy her. You can get Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhail and then you will be on your way to a full dialectal Irish - and the same one as used in Ráth Cairn!


Rath Cairn is in West Meath I think. I am in as East as Meath gets because I am right beside the sea! However, I will check up on what is available in Rath Cairn although I think that is nearly out near Loch crú which is a fair oul hike. it is actually quite amazing that there is so little resource in the country for learning Irish properly. I would have thought there would be something more local to Drogheda but Dublin and Gael Linn in Dublin was all I could find. It seems the country spits you out after school with an awful grounding in the language but leaves you little other options after that! I will look into Rath Cairn as you say...

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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec 2013 3:55 pm 
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patrickjwalsh wrote:
I don't think there is much difference - but I will be interested to see if the forum regulars have a comment to make. Caitheann tú (not caith tú) means "you must". Tá ort - means "you have to". Is there much of a difference between those in English?

My understanding is that Caith is a bit stonger, although I don't think it's a significant difference. Both would be weaker than B'éigean dom/duit/r.l.s..

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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec 2013 4:38 pm 
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An Lon Dubh wrote:
patrickjwalsh wrote:
I don't think there is much difference - but I will be interested to see if the forum regulars have a comment to make. Caitheann tú (not caith tú) means "you must". Tá ort - means "you have to". Is there much of a difference between those in English?

My understanding is that Caith is a bit stonger, although I don't think it's a significant difference. Both would be weaker than B'éigean dom/duit/r.l.s..


Thanks for the confirmation. I think ní mór dom is not quite as strong as b'éigean dom.


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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec 2013 4:45 pm 
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NiallBeag wrote:
The reason that "(a) bheith" never takes anything before it is simple and regular, not an exception: "bheith" does not take a direct object, so there is nothing that is able to move before it.


Bheith doesn't take an object, but can be preceded by the subject (capall a bheith ann).


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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec 2013 9:56 pm 
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Tá an cathiaor seo níos compordaí ná ceann sin. = This chair is more comfortable than that one. I would actually have been able to form this sentence myself having known all those words already but would have made the mistake of using compordach instead. So I feel good having learned and absorbed something new today :) This is one of the main problems I have in that while I am learning I don't have anyone to point out my mistakes and that is how I find I retain most knowledge.

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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Wed 04 Dec 2013 10:35 pm 
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Luke Ó Scolaidhe wrote:
Tá an cathiaor seo níos compordaí ná ceann sin. = This chair is more comfortable than that one. I would actually have been able to form this sentence myself having known all those words already but would have made the mistake of using compordach instead. So I feel good having learned and absorbed something new today :) This is one of the main problems I have in that while I am learning I don't have anyone to point out my mistakes and that is how I find I retain most knowledge.



Tá an chathaoir seo níos compordaí ná an ceann sin.

I think there are other ways of saying it - tá ana-chompord sa chathaoir seo =tá an chathaoir seo ana-chompordach.

But anyway, the point was the comparative.

What did you think of my suggesting of working your way through Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhial? You would find a large contingent here have done so. I did half of it (18 chapters) before switching to Teach Yourself Irish...


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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec 2013 12:43 am 
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NiallBeag wrote:
(Although now that I think about it, I recall my Scottish Gaelic lecturer telling me that Scottish Gaelic doesn't actually have a comparative (-er/most) and superlative (-est/most) but has a pattern that is similar but not the same. There's nas and as, and they're taught to learners as comparative and superlative, but they aren't really one or the other. Irish may be the same....)


A Néill Bhig,

That's essentially right, once you allow for the fact that the comparative (breischéim) is equivalent to the gsf of the adjective, ie cúramaí and not cúramach.

Níos - means "the thing that is", and is a contraction of ní and the copula. So níos feárr means, very literally and etymologically, "the thing that is better" - and the meaning of the phrase is still felt, as the past tense version is níba (the thing that was) - ní b'fheárr.

Is - means "that is" - the relative form of the copula, becoming "ba" in the past tense.

Rud atá níos casta - a thing that is (a thing that is more complex) -ie a more complicated thing
An rud is casta - a thing that is complex - ie the most complicated thing

past tense versions:

Rud a bhí níba chasta - a thing that was (a thing that was more complex) - ie a more complicated thing
an rud ba chasta - a thing that was complex - ie the most complicated thing


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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec 2013 9:03 am 
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patrickjwalsh wrote:
Luke Ó Scolaidhe wrote:
Tá an cathiaor seo níos compordaí ná ceann sin. = This chair is more comfortable than that one. I would actually have been able to form this sentence myself having known all those words already but would have made the mistake of using compordach instead. So I feel good having learned and absorbed something new today :) This is one of the main problems I have in that while I am learning I don't have anyone to point out my mistakes and that is how I find I retain most knowledge.



Tá an chathaoir seo níos compordaí ná an ceann sin.

I think there are other ways of saying it - tá ana-chompord sa chathaoir seo =tá an chathaoir seo ana-chompordach.

But anyway, the point was the comparative.

What did you think of my suggesting of working your way through Learning Irish by Mícheál Ó Siadhial? You would find a large contingent here have done so. I did half of it (18 chapters) before switching to Teach Yourself Irish...


Yeah I will check into that. Is it a difficult book? I have been using a intercert book for schools up to now and found it helpful. Mostly I have been taking little stories or excerpts from it and reading through them. I then memorise the gist of it and then rewrite it back out again myself. I find this useful for learning new words and also to learn new sentences that my brain finds hard to scramble the meaning of. What I mean by theat is for example a simple sentence like Bhí sé déanta agam. I had done it. although a simple sentence is hard for the English thinking mind to get you head around. I struggled with that reverse thinking for a while but have found the only way I could become comfortable with it was to constantly repeat it. I use my young daughter as a sounding board for my Irish as I speak to her in Irish all the time and it is nice to not have someone judging you all the time. Sometimes you will blurt out a word wrong or in the wrong order and know you have done it wrong even while you are saying it! But that is just practice I suppose. At least when she starts school the language will sound familiar to her ears. I am not too concerned about her speaking English or rather learning English because she seems to be bpicking that up fine already! Important words like 'mine!' Mamam and Dadad. I even had her reply to me with Tá yesterday! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec 2013 10:44 am 
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Luke Ó Scolaidhe wrote:
Yeah I will check into that. Is it a difficult book? I have been using a intercert book for schools up to now and found it helpful. Mostly I have been taking little stories or excerpts from it and reading through them. I then memorise the gist of it and then rewrite it back out again myself. I find this useful for learning new words and also to learn new sentences that my brain finds hard to scramble the meaning of. What I mean by theat is for example a simple sentence like Bhí sé déanta agam. I had done it. although a simple sentence is hard for the English thinking mind to get you head around. I struggled with that reverse thinking for a while but have found the only way I could become comfortable with it was to constantly repeat it. I use my young daughter as a sounding board for my Irish as I speak to her in Irish all the time and it is nice to not have someone judging you all the time. Sometimes you will blurt out a word wrong or in the wrong order and know you have done it wrong even while you are saying it! But that is just practice I suppose. At least when she starts school the language will sound familiar to her ears. I am not too concerned about her speaking English or rather learning English because she seems to be bpicking that up fine already! Important words like 'mine!' Mamam and Dadad. I even had her reply to me with Tá yesterday! :)


Yes, Learning Irish is a difficult book - it is a dry grammar-based textbook. But it is the best out there and numerous people here have used it and you could ask questions on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Haigh!
PostPosted: Thu 05 Dec 2013 11:03 am 
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patrickjwalsh wrote:
Luke, if you want to learn the language for its own sake - as I am, as it is the language of many of my ancestors - then I think you could do worse than start with Teach Yourself Irish - which has audio files, and the text and MP3s are available for free on archive.org Good luck!

I would love to take part in a chapter by chapter thread learning from that book - and I think others such as An Lon Dubh would play a huge role - so why don't we focus on learning the language?

I meant to say, I'd love to go through Teach Yourself Irish if anybody wants to.

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