peidhleacán

Probably picked it up from my Dad, but this is always what I've said. From the datai link. I pronounce it "pie-luh-kawn". Stress on the KAWN.

That's true, the dialects aren't that different overall, especially among younger speakers.

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Interesting phrase:

Ní raibh sé thar moladh beirte = It wasn't beyond the praise of two = It was crap.

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Weak Plurals:
I was told by one of the native speakers with a very detailed knowledge of the grammar
of Irish that weak plurals are getting rarer in the spoken language. For those who are interested
weak plurals are those like the following:

Fear -> Fir (slenderising)
Gráinneog -> Gráinneoga (adding an a)

It is only words with a weak plural that have a genitive plural.
Since weak plurals are getting rarer, this basically means the genitive plural
is getting rarer and the vast majority of words only have one plural.

A good example is Bronntanas, in the standard you have:
Bronntanas -> Bronntanais (slenderise to make the plural)

So in the genitive you have:
Táim ag díol na mBronntanas I'm selling the presents.
So Bronntanas is in the genitive plural.

However in Corca Dhuibhne, the plural is Bronntanaisí, which isn't a weak plural,
so you only have one plural form. So you would say:
Táim ag díol na mBronntanaisí I'm selling the presents.

So I'll next give a bunch of rules for making plurals that I was given and after that
a post about the use of the genitive plural.

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

I Wait eagerly

_________________
Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

Im just curious about this , the old teach yourself Irish says that the initial consonant of an adjective is aspirated after the Genitive singular of a masculine noun. e.g. Cos an chapaill bháin. But your saying the Genitive shouldn't be used in the sentence at all. Is this a difference between Muscrai and Corca Dhuibhne or has usage just changed to omit the genitive with an adjective?

_________________
Bíonn rudaí maithe mall

According to the folks at GaelTalk (Lesson 10), the plural is bronntanasaí in Múscraí.

Yikes, I utterly didn't know that!
I'd have thought it was: Hata an fhir dhubh.

* A Loin Dhuibh, if it's not too much trouble, could you post the following in good Munster Irish:
a man's hat (a hat of a man)
a hat of the man
the hat of a man
the hat of the man

men's hats (hats of men)
a hat of the men
the hats of men
the hats of the men

That is correct. That would be the traditionally correct use of the genitive in Munster.


In Corca Dhuibhne usage has changed so that the genitive is omitted with an adjective in speech.
In Músgraí however, people will usually not omit the genitive.

I should say that in Corca Dhuibhne people will write:
Cos an chapaill bháin
but they will say:
Cos an chapall b(h)án

Since they are using the nominative, many speakers will not lenite the adjective (as is the rule for the
masculine nominative), many will, both uses seem equally common to me.

I was told (this is also mentioned in Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne, by Diarmuid Ó Sé, on p.145) that in speech
the adjective and the noun being put in the genitive is really only used with fixed expressions like
arán bán, duine bocht.

Basically, it is typical that if an adjective follows the noun, both noun and adjective
will be in the nominative. For one or two syllable nouns followed by a single syllable adjective, speakers
are more likely to use the genitive of the noun, but they still won't use the adjective genitive form, so
you might hear:
Cos an chapaill b(h)án

I was told told a possible explanation for all this, one which I've heard before, which is that an adjective
in genitive position is actually reasonably rare in speech, so actually inflecting the adjective has fallen
somewhat out of practice.

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

People do say what you've written.
The traditionally correct version was:
Hata an fhir dhuibh With both noun and adjective in the genitive.

However, many would now say:
Hata an fhir d(h)ubh With the adjective not in the genitive.

And the majority would say:
Hata an fhear d(h)ubh With both noun and adjective left in the nominative.

Now by the way, this is just Corca Dhuibhne, I know some speakers in Cork who
would only accept the first version and most speakers in Cork say either
the first or second.


No problem, I'll leave out the plural ones until later, as I have to explain the genitive plural still
and they would only look confusing without that explanation.

Hata d'fhear
Hata den fhear
Hata fir
Hata an fhir
There is no real variation here.

However if we add an adjective, we would get, using the traditional grammar:
Hata d'fhear mhór
Hata den fhear mhór
Hata fir mhóir
Hata an fhir mhóir

Many people though would leave the adjective in nominative, in both Corca Dhuibhne
and Cork. When this is done, there is no consistent rule on lenition.
Hata d'fhear mhór
Hata den fhear mhór
Hata fir m(h)ór
Hata an fhir m(h)ór

Finally most people in Corca Dhuibhne, of all ages, would leave both noun and adjective
in the nominative. Again there is no consistent rule on lenition of the adjective:
Hata d'fhear mhór
Hata den fhear mhór
Hata fear m(h)ór
Hata an fhear m(h)ór

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Go raibh míle maith agat, a Loin Dhuibh!

I've got to seriously start working on this.