Whew!

I'm all done with Cuid a trí déag now!

I've just got one small question and then I'll be ready to get going on Cuid a ceathair déag to-morrow.

First, here's the whole sentence:
Ansan d'oscail sí a bhéal agus a cliabh, agus chuir sí liú aisti go hárd agus go binn, liú a hairíodh breis agus míle mórthimpeall ón áit 'na raibh sí 'na seasamh.

Why is it "a bhéal", with séimhiú, instead of "a béal"?

Oh, that's just a typo. The original Sliabh na mBan bhFionn text has a béal.
(I've notified the owner of the Cork Irish website)

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Thanks for letting me know about that.

I'm forging ahead now with Cuid a ceathair déag.

Just checking:
ursal na lorgan bhfada – could this mean "fire-tongs of the long handle", possibly?

The definition for lorga that was given in the notes is "shin", but "fire-tongs of the long shins" sounded kind of odd to me, so I looked it up in the dictionary and found lorga sáfaí "the handle of an axe".

I also found the word lorgán (with a síneadh fada), and this word can mean "a (little) handle".

Yeah, definitely. Lorga has the additional meaning of "handle",as you mentioned, which is definitely more relevant here!

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

I just went through the notes for Cuid a ceathair déag and came across a few things that could be changed:

page 43
Lorga Shin; handle [I think you should mention that lorga can also mean "handle" because that is how it's used in the story.]

In Cuid a naoi, [comma] it was mentioned that the fifth declension consists of …

We will deal with the nouns … [in The Official Wee Falorie Man Dialect]

An exception that is not mentioned there, [comma] are -ach genitives where to get the dative, [comma] you slenderise … ["that is" in The Official Wee Falorie Man Dialect, and the commas for clarity]

Some examples are given below.

Lorga, Lorgan, Lorgain Shin; handle [it's good to mention the meaning that was used in the story.]

The nominative is provided first, with translation, followed by the … [a comma instead of starting a new sentence with the word "followed"]

Máthair [with a síneadh fada]

1. Firstly, the … same as either the nominative plural …

ursal na lorgan bhfada fire-tongs of the long handle [no need to capitalize ursal and lorgan; also, I changed the definition to the one that we came up with]

For why the adjective is eclipsed, [comma] see …

It is by far the more common case that the two plurals (nominative and genitive) are the same. [I know what you mean when you say "are the same", but I don't think it's very clear. To be more precise, maybe you could use some high-falutin' talk like "are inflected in the same way".]

page 44
For example, [comma] Saoi …

Béal In this case, it means the edge (of an axe) [the word "Also" seems non-sequitur without any context]

Roth an turainn the wheel of a spinning-wheel ["the" shouldn't be capitalized, or you could capitalize "the" in "the edge of an axe" – either way, as long as they're both consistent; it's "spinning-wheel", not "well", I think; the whole definition should be italicised]

Srang (b.) String [italicised]

Turann spinning-wheel [this should be in the next line down; by the way, spinning-wheel has a hyphen in the Official Wee Falorie Man Dialect – a spinning wheel (without the hyphen) would be a wheel, any sort of wheel, that happens to be spinning]

Hence, [comma] you might expect …

Instead [one word], [comma] we have …

Fearsad [no "h" at the end]

Uisge na gcos Feet water [Using "feet" instead of "foot", is a more direct translation; also, "feet" is the only way I've ever seen it translated in every folk-tale that I've ever read – just sayin' …]

In The Official Wee Falorie Man Dialect: Water that was used for washing the feet of the people who lived in the house.

page 45
Is é an post atá agamsa ná anamacha na marbh a bhailiú The job that have, it is to gather the souls of the dead. [The Official Wee Falorie Man Dialect shows how atá means "that" in the sentence; also, don't forget "the souls" in the translation]

Note that the subject in all cases contains a relative clause, the deleted article is in brackets:

Is é rud a dhein sé ná an bhó a dhíol It is the thing that he did, to sell the cow [The Official Wee Falorie Man Dialect works nicely here to show the meaning of a in the original sentence]

Sin a bhfuil agam anois, a Loin Dhuibh. If all goes well, I should be done with Cuid a ceathair déag by the end of the week. *crosses fingers*

Corrections noted a Chionnfhaolaigh, now on to your notes/questions.

Cork speakers would be more likely to not lenite it, but it's still very common to lenite.

Thanks for that point, I'll read some of my sources on Classical Irish to try to find an answer to your question.


Yes, indeed it could. However, note that this is a very unusual spelling as here the síneadh fada
marks accent stress not length. Something the Bards occasionally did, but has been virtually eliminated
from the modern spelling system.



Tá an carr ag a máthair? = Tá an carr agá máthair?
Same pronunciation, the á is actually marking stress.

The second sentence is not possible, I believe. What kind of sentence do you have in mind.


The thing to keep in mind is that there are basically two types of ag+pronoun form.
The type used with the verbal noun and the type used elsewhere.

Tá sé am bualadh = He is at my beating = He is hitting me.
Tá cairt aigeam' mháthair = My mother has a car.

So, in most circumstances:
aigeam'
aigeat'
ag a/aigeana
ag ár/aigeanár
ag úr/aigeanúr

Before verbal nouns:
am
ad/at'
á
ár
úr

Actually, I think the dá/ghá distinction was used nowhere and is based on an etymological theory popular at the
end of the 19th century, i.e. nobody made a distinction, but they imagined Classical Irish did and put it in their writings. Hypercorrection essentially.




More to come....

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

For anybody reading, this is a lovely book, not very detailed for more subtle points of grammar, like copula usage e.t.c. but great for noun and verb inflections and not too bad as a introduction to reading grammars in Irish, if you
want to read things like Gaeilge Chorca Dhuibhne later.


So the Caighdeán acknowledges these odd cases, interesting to see, reference noted.

More to come....

_________________
The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Sórd, I think.


Agreed.


Thanks for that. I've an embarrasingly large gap in my knowledge about Scots Gaelic. I agree about the pronunciation aspect. It often sounds closer to a-bhfad in rapid speech.


No way!


I have got to tell that to others! Who would have guessed! Where did you find that out?

I my experience, most people have:
Leabaidh/Leaba (nom.)
Leapan (gen.)
Leabaidh (dat.)

Leaba as the nominative is the less common of the choices, it's the one I use.
Is your declension pattern the typical one in Rinn?


Thanks, noted.


You're right. Thanks!


Good point!


The á represents the entire clause: go raibh tuirse uirthi, just as the é in the second example
stands in for the clause: go bhfeacadar an Rí.




I think this might be a Cork phrase as I hear dh'iarraidh in Kerry as well.

More to come...

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

I'll add all of these in, thanks.

Agreed.


Peadar Ua Laoghaire's works are full of such expressions, one of the joys of reading Séadna is the sheer amount
of such expressions in the story. I was planning to read Séadna again, I must make a big list of expressions such as this.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal