I know ya Niallbeag but you know what we're like..."as near as, is as good as"! What might be helpful guys, if people were inclined to, is to create a taxonomy of usage of the various terms...Gaelic, Irish, An Ghaoluinn/ Ghaelainn srl from both a native and othernative perspective from the diaspora and see what we come up with. I mean nobody ever told me or nobody ever made me think it was a rule that you don't say "Gaelic Dancing" and do say "Irish Dancing" or that you don't say "Irish football" (come on Cork, up the rebels bai- sorry can't help meself) but do say "Gaelic Football"...you just pick it up as a part of a natural and native discourse. However the terms are sometimes different in Irish and as I've pointed out before that's because the terms don't translate perfectly from one language to the other---quite often the difficulty lays in the English cognates....but there is plenty of room for discourse....ps "Political Correctness" has a different meaning in Ireland- it's something we laugh at, quite often cos we're naturally saucy fuckers and like taking the piss and causing a little discomfort for the greater craic and afterall without the craic there's fuck all else important. Come on Ireland score another four goals and I win my bet

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Táim ag foghlaim Gaelainn na Mumhan

Tá fáilte roim nach aon cheartú!
I am a learner. Any translations offered are practice and should not be used unless confirmed.

>sigh< One day you lot'll learn the correct spelling of a good old Scots word...

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

I did not "jump into a heated debate" - what I joined was a perfectly civil discussion (read the thread!). If things got "heated", that happened later and not by my doing. The notion that formal introductions are de rigueur on online discussion forums is a novel one. As for the notion that before contributing to one thread you first have to have contributed to another ... the mind boggles.

Of course none of this is remotely true (read the thread!).

I certainly did not ignore "evidence presented by several long-standing members". In fact I was the only one to reply to one of those mentioned (Féabar).

Nor did I "insist" that "no one in Ireland" says "Gaelic". In fact I myself pointed out some of the circumstances in which Irish people may occasionally use the word, according to: what part of the country they're from, who they're talking to, or ("or", not "and"!) whether they're hostile to the language.

All this was supported by references or corroborated by other posters.

As regards the idea that native speakers are more likely to say "Gaelic" and non-natives "Irish", and the reference by other posters to older speakers from the Múscraí area in this regard, perhaps the usage in question was due to factors other than a long-standing tradition in that area, considering that the eminent writer, an tAthair Peadar Ó Laoghaire, who was from thereabouts, who lived from 1839 to 1920, and who acquired both English and Irish “os cionn an chliabháin”, appears to have called the language "Irish" in his English writings.

I also found this snippet in a letter to The Scottish Magazine by a correspondent in Ireland, dated April 3 1849:
....
P.S. Although on a different subject, allow me to observe, that in the notice respecting the Gaelic service in Glasgow, it is said that "the same language in Ireland is callled "native Irish." This is a mistake. The people in Ireland always call it "Gaelic" when speaking in the language itself. When speaking in the English language they call it "Irish," just as in Scotland the same language is called in English the "Earse", clearly a corruption of the word "Irish".

So this one contemporary source at least is clear that for Irish-speakers of the mid-19th century the English name of the language was "Irish".

As a general proposition, too, a Gaeltacht/Galltacht divide seems implausible. If "Irish" was the default term in Irish English, as it appears to have been (even among Gaelic Leaguers), and since the English acquired by Gaeltacht people is surely the Irish variety (rather than the English of Britain or North America, say), and since there seems to be no other systematic vocabulary differences between the English spoken by people from the Gaeltachtaí and that of the rest of the population, and given also the fact that the different Gaeltacht regions are not contiguous and have not been for quite a long time, it would be remarkable if those disparate communities independently resisted this one term when adopting everything else.

This thread has probably gone on long enough, but this is just a quick note to point out that, in the 1901 and 1911 censuses in Ireland, which were done in English while Ireland was still not free, the language was called "Irish", so the use of that term when speaking English must have been considered fairly standard at least that long ago.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.

Well I'd say most Irish would use "Irish" today, but a few people of the
older generations would say "Gaelic". Both words have been around for
a good while in English.
A good amount of people outside the country, both in other English speaking
countries and on continental Europe know it is as "Gaelic". So there are simply
two words for it, just as you might hear "Farsi" and "Persian" or "Basque"
and "Euskara". Irish is one of the languages that a name which is a rough
approximation of the native name exists in English as well as the more
typical "X-ish".


Well I didn't quiz the poor fella! As I said my grandparents would have said it as well. I mean it's
just a word, I don't think most people mean to be offensive when they use it. Is there a particular reason
you are concerned with its usage.

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The dialect I use is Cork Irish.
Ar sgáth a chéile a mhairid na daoine, lag agus láidir, uasal is íseal

Wow I'm inactive for a week and I have sooo much to catch up on.


I have always called the language "Irish" so does everybody I know locally.
I never heard before that it was foisted on us officially.
My parents said "Irish" too. I don't know what my grandparents would've said.
I think some older people do say "Gaelic", especially when talking to foreigners. But it sounds a bit old-fashioned now.

"Gaelic" as used in Ireland doesn't refer strictly to the language, it used for the whole Irish culture like in Gaelic football, Gaelic League.

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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Bríd, _English_ was foisted upon the Irish historically, was it not?

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Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).

You know what I mean.
Are you in a bad mood today?

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It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
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