Scooby can I ask a question about "idir" in the caighdeán, I read there recently that when "idir" means between and the singular article is proceeding it "idir an" then the noun should not come under the influence of the dative i.e it should be left in the ainmneach

"idir an buachaill" and "idir buachaill"

But when "idir" is followed by the plural artcle i.e "na" then the noun should be placed in the dative.

"idir na buachaillí(bh)" and "idir bhuachaillí(bh)"

This seems strange as "idir" in Munster is always kept in the dative when the article is following it. I know "gan" and "mar" are other finicky réamhfhocail.

Or have I this arse- ways?????

_________________

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

Sin nua domhsa chón maith

_________________

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

Here's how I understand it in the caighdeán:

Tá an cathaoir idir an buachaill agus an cailín.
Tá an traein idir Corcaigh agus Baile Átha Cliath.
Tá idir bhuachaillí agus chailíní sa seomra.
Is beannaithe thú idir mhná (idir mhnáibh - although I suppose this isn't in the caighdeán, just the way I learned it first).

So, yes, you're right. I don't think too much about the tuisil here.

In summary - when idir means both, it puts a séimhiú on both nouns that follow.
When idir means between is does not put séimhiús on the two nouns which follow.
But where idir is followed by one (plural) noun only, then it puts a séimhiú on like most other prepositions.

In the caighdeán idir na causes no change whatever the tuiseal. So it's idir na buachaillí no matter what.

More about idir:

I mentioned that when idir means between two things, it doesn't cause lenition. I mean physically located between.

Why mention this. Well if you're 'between laughing and crying', you're kind of both laughing and crying, aren't you??? Or perhaps you don't know which to do. In any case, it's not about location.

FGB gives idir gháire agus ghol = between laughing and weeping.

Why the lenition? Probably because it doesn't refer to physical location (and really means both)...maybe!

Then there's idir shúgradh is dáiríre (half in joke, half in earnest) (half lenited - half not!!!). I'm half out of my mind trying to get my head around this!!! Idir gháire agus ghol indeed.

_________________

Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice

Still awaiting guidance....

_________________

Fan mar a bhfuil tú agus mar atá tú. Literally: Stay where you are and as you are. ('mar' + ind. rel. = 'where').

That's kind of odd. I replied to the post, pressed SUBMIT, saw that Errigal had responded to the thread last and my post was nowhere to be seen.

I think I know what may have happened there.
Both you and Errigal were writing at the same time. But Errigal posted first. Then when you submited you were notified that "Errigal has posted before you" so you have to confirm you've seen that and "submit" again. It can be easy to miss that sometimes.

_________________
___________________________________________________________

It is recommended that you always wait for three to agree on a translation.
I speak Connemara Irish, and my input will often reflect that.
I will do an mp3 file on request for short translations.
___________________________________________________________