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PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2012 5:08 am 
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Location: Éire
An Cionnfhaolach wrote:
Not at all, I'll try my best, I am not the most authoritive person, so I can only go on what I've heard over 3 years, while attending Secondary school down there.

I have labeled them alphabetically to make it more understandable:

(a) my grammar terminology isn't great so, could you put what you mean into a sentence? I should cop what your getting at then. But if you mean that "a" is said instead of "go" and "ar" is used instead " "gur", then no its not. But give me an example of what you mean. However, in some phrases the "go" is not pronounced at all e.g Chuaigh sé go dtí an chathair would be pronounced in speech as:
Chuaigh or Chua' sé ' dtí'n chathair- if you say it fast enough it sounds like the "go" has been changed for an "a"- Chua' sé a dtí'n chathair. So, that may explain this. I have never seen "a" represented as "go" before in writing

(b) I have heard both, "igí" is used much more often and is a result of the Caighdeán destroying the dialect.

(c) That is still very common in An Rinn still for example- gnó is pronounced as gnú, trathnóna is trathnúna (the th is guttural) and nú is nó (but I believe nú is nó in all of Munster's sub dialects).

(d) This one I am not 100% assured of. But I believe the munster form sara or sarar is used. fé is used for before in certain phrases like fé dheireadh/ fé dheiridh.

(e) Nín, very good. Older speakers and those that are still rooted in the language use it, but its on its last legs. I haven't heard any young person use it- again an influence of the caighdeán. I use it of course because that's the way it used to be and that is the way, I believe, it should remain.

(f) Yes to a certain extent but not to the same extent as other Gaedhealtachts. I remember our class adopted "do" soon after getting involved with Maidhc Dainín. Before that not really- Caighdeán again.

(g) That's correct Ring is the only dialect I believe who séimhiú the aimsir chaite saoghar- bhriathar. We first came across this while being thaught by Ciarán Ó Gealbháin in 4th year, when we were looking at some works by Ring authors. Before that, no, my class never used it. But then when we discovered so, we all started using it- but of course not in writing because that's not allowed due to the caighdeán.

That said Ring Irish still contains some of her original beauty:

Dé is used instead of cén: Dé chúis and never cén fáth or canathaobh (Kerry)

Fuireach(t)- pronounced f'reach(t) instead of fanacht

"i" in most words is pronounced like the "i" in faighte or the "i" letter in English- it is rarely pronounce like an "ee"- for example Cill (church/ church yard) is pronounced like the name "kyle" and not like keel or Kill, Im (butter) is like the "I'm" of English instead of the Kerry im- eem and the Cork "im".

Faighte interestingly enough is pronounce like fwit- a, faighte is fachta I believe in Kerry?

On a funny note, maighstreás/ máistreás should not be used to address a female teacher in Ring- BIG mistake- found that out the hard way :LOL: ,
- It is the norm to address a teacher máistreás in Kerry. But máistreás is only used for MISTRESS in Ring :LOL: as soon as I said it there was a fit of laughter and a not to impressive, half a wry smile, look on the teachers face :darklaugh: . I was used to máistreás because I attended a Gaodhalsgoil where all the teachers were from Kerry and did my Junior Cert through Irish were most of my teachers were from Cork. It is grand to address a male teacher as maighstir/ máistir (pronounced my-sh-ter). A mhuinteoir is the correct way to address a female teacher. In ring Irish there is no fada on the first a in both maighstreás or maighstear/ maighstir or if there is its not pronounced.

Many thanks for taking the time to answer the questions. Fascinating stuff.

On (a): Sorry that should have been indirect relative particle, not article :)
As in: An fear a bhfuil an bád aige, An bhean ar chaill a mac an t-airgead. West Munster uses go & gur. I thought it might have influenced Rinn.

(b): I believe -igí actually has a long history in Rinn/Déise Irish. I thought West Munster -idh might have ousted it since 'Sean-Chaint na nDéise' was written.


Maighistir & maighistreás are found in other parts of Ireland too. I'm glad to hear it's still heard in Rinn.
The variations in our dialects are endlessly interesting.

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PostPosted: Tue 14 Aug 2012 11:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri 09 Mar 2012 6:16 pm
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Muimhniseoir wrote:
Many thanks for taking the time to answer the questions. Fascinating stuff.

On (a): Sorry that should have been indirect relative particle, not article :)
As in: An fear a bhfuil an bád aige, An bhean ar chaill a mac an t-airgead. West Munster uses go & gur. I thought it might have influenced Rinn.

(b): I believe -igí actually has a long history in Rinn/Déise Irish. I thought West Munster -idh might have ousted it since 'Sean-Chaint na nDéise' was written.



(a) :LOL: You might as well have said superkalifragilistic expialidoshis I'd still be non the wiser. The auld nightmare of the coibhneataí: In my 17 years of speaking and listening to Irish I only found out what these were last year. And I wish I hadn't. I tried to study them but it just made me more confused :panic: and no I have become unsure of myself and that's the worst position to be in because you definitely make mistakes then!

In an Rinn you hear both, go and a- an fear go bhfuil. That's probably from seing "a bhfuil" in every school text book. The second one is almost exclusively gur...or else they would have gotten it wrong and said an fear a thit...It is hard to tell what is indigenous now though because things have been mixed, maybe not in terms of vocab or pronounciation- but subtle grammatical differences like the coibhneas.

(b) that matches with what is still common but as I said its getting very had to differentiate what was indigenous and what has been adopted. It is harder to tell with Gaolainn na nDéise because it differs from its other Sub- dialects- taking in influences from all other dialects.

Muimhniseoir wrote:
Maighistir & maighistreás are found in other parts of Ireland too. I'm glad to hear it's still heard in Rinn.
The variations in our dialects are endlessly interesting.


Indeed, the Irish dialects are one of my favourite aspects of the language. I love dialects and what makes them individual or localised. Sometimes they can be gateways into the older and more poetic language. But of course our Munster one is the best ;) :LOL: :hide:

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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