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PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2012 1:29 am 
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In another thread (here), Lughaidh gave a sample list of prepositions used in Ulster Irish with and wihout the article.

Just for comparison here are the prepositions in Connacht Irish:

So, the prepositions that are followed by the dative case:

ag balla --------- ag an mballa
ar chloch ------------ ar an gcloch
as bocsa ---------------- as an mbocsa
chuig cara ----------------- chuig an gcara (usually shortened to 'uig or ag)
de chlár ---------------- den chlár (also written dhe and dhen, "de" and "den" are usually pronounced go and gon, respectively, in these positions)
do chara -------------- don chara (also written dho and dhon, "do" and "don" are usually pronounced go and gon, respectively, in these positions)
fara : not usually used in Connacht
faoi chloch -------------- faoin gcloch
fá/fó chara -------------- fán/fón gcara (rarely used in Connacht)
i mbocsa ------------- sa mbocsa (san earrach, sa bhfómhar)
ionsar : not usually used in Connacht
le cara -------------- leis an gcara (and le hairgead but h not pronounced)
ó cheantar ------------ ón gceantar
roimh chloch ------------- roimh an gcloch
thrí fhuinneo(i)g ------------ thríd an bhfuinneo(i)g (trí in standard Irish)
thar chloch ----------------- thar an gcloch
um: not usually used in Connacht

go cathair ----------- go dtí an chathair (go can't be directly followed by the article, if you need the article you use go dtí before it and the noun in is the nominative so feminine nouns are lenited) (and go prefixes h to vowels, go hÉirinn, go hAlbain)

The Rules (roughly):

i/sa always cause eclipsis (urú).
ag/as/chuig/le cause no change directly (i.e., without an intervening an).
go causes no change directly (i.e., without an intervening an), but adds h before a vowel.
All other prepositions cause lenition (séimhiú) directly (i.e., without an intervening an).

den/don cause lenition.
All other prepositions cause eclipsis (urú) after an.

d, t, s resist lenition and eclipsis after an (DNTLS rule).
t is added before feminine words starting with s after the article in the dative, ar an tsráid, den tsúil.

(Edited to add that the main difference from standard is that sa causes eclipsis in Connacht, but lenition in standard.)

Perhaps someone would like to give the Munster and standard versions in separate threads? (marked "(GM)" and "(CO)" respectively, please.)

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[hr]Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher[/hr]
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


Last edited by Breandán on Sun 12 Aug 2012 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2012 1:50 am 
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Brendan: THANK YOU THANK YOU. This has been one of those days you talked about before where one's mind just suddenly decides to remember something. This is a great and needed addition to Lughaidh's Ulster review. Thanks to you, Lughaidh, Bríd, Redwolf and all others who monitor, contribute etc. It is great to get a comprehensive view of the use of the Réamhfhocail in Irish.

I really appreciate it.
:nail:
Féabar


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PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2012 12:08 pm 
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A Bhreandáin - dialects are not my thing! So what's the story with roimh? You say roimh is used in standard Irish - is it roim GC?

What about dho(n) - when is that used instead of do(n)?


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PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2012 12:53 pm 
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Quote:
A Bhreandáin - dialects are not my thing!


well, Irish is a group of dialects (as are all languages)... to me, saying that dialects aren't your thing means Irish isn't your thing... which isn't true, obviously!

Quote:
So what's the story with roimh? You say roimh is used in standard Irish - is it roim GC?


roimh is Standard and Connachta, Munster use "roim(is)" and Ulster rather uses "roimhe".

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PostPosted: Sun 12 Aug 2012 1:05 pm 
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Scooby wrote:
A Bhreandáin - dialects are not my thing! So what's the story with roimh? You say roimh is used in standard Irish - is it roim GC?

Sorry for the confusion, Scooby, the comment "(roimh in standard Irish)" was in Lughaidh's original thread (viewtopic.php?f=28&t=1409), which I used as a template. It's roimh in GC and CO, but roimhe in GU. I've removed the comment in case it causes further confusion, GRMA. (I'll set up separate thread for the standard forms. If you could check it for errors, that would be great.)

Scooby wrote:
What about dho(n) - when is that used instead of do(n)?

Technically, always. Whether it is written do(n) or dho(n), it is always pronounced traditionally go(n). Many younger speakers are substituting in school-influenced don where it wouldn't be used traditionally.

The historical progression is of course self-evident:

do /do/ => /ɣo/ => /go/

For do, the combined forms with pronouns are: dhom, dhuit, dhá, dhi, dhúinn, dhaoib(h), dhóib(h), but may be de-lenited to dom, duit, dá, di, dúinn, daoib(h), dóib(h) after another dental, but often also shortened to 'om, 'uit, 'á, dhi, 'úinn, 'aoib(h), 'óib(h) in rapid speech.

For de, the stand-alone preposition is pronounced like go, but the combined forms with pronouns are: dhíom, dhíot, dhe, dhi, dhínn, dhíb(h), dhíob(h).

_________________
[hr]Múinteoir Gaeilge - Irish Teacher[/hr]
My "specialty" is Connemara Irish, particularly Cois Fhairrge dialect, but I can also speak Ulster and Munster Irish with native-level pronunciation.
Is fearr Gaeilge ḃriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte, aċ i ḃfad níos fearr aríst í Gaeilge ḃinn ḃeo na nGaeltaċtaí.
Gaeilge Chonnacht (GC), go háraid Gaeilge Chois Fhairrge (GCF), Gaeilic Uladh (GU), Gaelainn na Mumhan (GM), agus Gaeilge an Chaighdeáin Oifigiúil (CO).


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