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 Post subject: Cailleach - meanings
PostPosted: Sun 05 Jan 2025 3:00 pm 
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Hello.
Irish dictionaries inform that Cailleach can mean nun (obsolete), veiled woman and druidess. Concerning the meaning druidess, I wonder if anybody can tell me if it is a recent meaning for Cailleach or it is an ancient one.


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 Post subject: Re: Cailleach - meanings
PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2025 1:03 am 
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What dictionaries give it a meaning of 'druidess'. None of the ones I checked quickly give that meaning, and the main English > Irish dictionary doesn't have 'cailleach' as a translation of druidess. In whatever dictionary it is in, it likely arose due to the association of the 'cailleach' as a magical hag, basically. Assuming it's a valid translation at all.

As to your question, no, it's not ancient. 'Cailleach' comes from 'caille', which is a Latin loan and was originally used for veiled women, nun, housekeeper, old woman, hag in Old Irish. But, as said, it's not even a Celtic word.

And that's not getting into the whole can of worms that is 'druids in Ireland'.


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 Post subject: Re: Cailleach - meanings
PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2025 11:23 am 
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Unfortunately, I lost the note I took pointing to the dictionary. I remember it was an English-Irish dictionary, but not eDil. I will continue searching and if/when I find it again, I will post here so it will help everyone interested in the subject.

Yes, Cailleach is a loanword from Latin. On the 12th Century it gradually replaced the old denominations Senntainne Bhéarra, which had replaced the original Sentainne Buí, this around the 8th-9th Century. The association of Cailleach as hag and witch seem to me to start in the 18th Century and 19th Century authors embraced that vigorously, contaminating and complicating her original role of a telluric deity (not a hag). At least in the 8-9th sources I could find, she was never associated with witchery. She liked to walk and seemed to be everywhere at the same time (omniscient). However, I may have missed some ancient source from before the 12th Century so any new information on this subject is welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Cailleach - meanings
PostPosted: Mon 06 Jan 2025 2:10 pm 
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I'm skeptical about An Cailleach originally being any sort of pre-Christian deity. I know Ronald Hutton actually explicitly denies this in his work. Also, from what I can tell, the association of 'witch' and 'hag' with Cailleach does go back fairly far, see Éigse xxviii, as mentioned on eDIL itself.

> On the 12th Century it gradually replaced the old denominations Senntainne Bhéarra, which had replaced the original Sentainne Buí, this around the 8th-9th Century.

Do you have any sources for these terms being Pagan? The one academic source I can find says the consensus is that the author who first used Sentainen Buí invented the character, and that most the myths around the Cailleach are likely to be later in nature. There's really no evidence for the Cailleach in pagan Ireland. Really, there's not much evidence of anything about pagan Ireland.


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 Post subject: Re: Cailleach - meanings
PostPosted: Tue 07 Jan 2025 10:56 am 
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You are right to be skeptical, most sources of pre-Christian mythology are from the Christian Era. One current is skeptical but other is not. Playing a bit with that, the first would believe perhaps that the name Sentainne was imported from the Christian Saint Anne while the second would believe the inverse.

It is very difficult to find what really happened at that time. As you know, early Irish mythology is a tangle of legends that is very difficult to resolve. The legend Hunt of Slieve Cuillin, seemingly from the 12th Century, tells that Cailleach was Miluchradh, sister of Áine, daughter of Cuillin, that is she was born directly from the Cuillin ridge (An Cuillthean) in the Island of Skye (Scotland). Other legends tell she still lives at Cnoc Buí (mount Knowth) and is daughter of red-haired Riadri. The Irish option seems to be older than the Scottish.

I read several sources but the one that seems very thorough is The Book of the Cailleach by Ó Crualaoich. She is adept of the view on the ancient tectonic pre-Christian female deity, turned into sovereignty symbol centuries later. What is the source for the information that the name Sentainne Buí was invented?
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