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 Post subject: Ní fearr ann í
PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec 2021 11:40 am 
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I read the article "Tá deireadh le hImpireacht na Breataine agus ní fearr ann í…" on tuairisc.ie and wondered about the phrase "ní fearr ann í" which I haven't known yet. Google Translate, though it has become much better in recent years in Irish idioms, was no help at all ("it's no better") and it was a bit hard to find the correct translation in Ó Dónaill's FGB for this phrase (ní fearr ann é = "it is no loss").

I still have no clue how I come from verbatim "is-not better in-it she" to "it/she is no loss". Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Ní fearr ann í
PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec 2021 11:57 am 
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ní feárr ann í is gibberish written by a learner. It should be ní feárr ann é, with é referring (non-specifically in terms of grammatical gender to the general situation).

Have you compared this? Ní feárr duit rud de - in FGB for "you are just as well off". Ní feárr duit rud maith ná é.

ní feárr ann é would mean "there is nothing better for it than it (or "its") being this way". (Níl aon rud is feárr ann ná é bheith mar sin.)


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 Post subject: Re: Ní fearr ann í
PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec 2021 9:23 pm 
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There’s also the phrase "Ní fearr ann ná as é." which means more or less the same.
B’fhéidir, "ní fearr ann é" is just an abridged version of it?


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 Post subject: Re: Ní fearr ann í
PostPosted: Mon 27 Dec 2021 9:36 pm 
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Labhrás wrote:
There’s also the phrase "Ní fearr ann ná as é." which means more or less the same.
B’fhéidir, "ní fearr ann é" is just an abridged version of it?


Ní feárr ann ná as é - níl aon rud is feárr (ná) é bheith ann seochas mar do bhí mura mbeadh sé ann in aon chor?

These are so elliptical that they are hard to understand. I wonder if Bríd instinctively gets the meaning straightaway, or maybe these are region- or dialect-specific anyway?

Or maybe the first one, ní feárr ann é, means "it's no loss", in the sense "it would be no improvement for it to be there"? ní bheadh an scéal níos feárr dá mbeadh sé ann?

It's difficult to understand. Maybe Gumbi and Braoin would be the best ones to sort this out, having gone to Irish schools and seeing the idiom from both sides?


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 Post subject: Re: Ní fearr ann í
PostPosted: Tue 28 Dec 2021 8:31 am 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
There’s also the phrase "Ní fearr ann ná as é." which means more or less the same.
B’fhéidir, "ní fearr ann é" is just an abridged version of it?


Ní feárr ann ná as é - níl aon rud is feárr (ná) é bheith ann seochas mar do bhí mura mbeadh sé ann in aon chor?

These are so elliptical that they are hard to understand. I wonder if Bríd instinctively gets the meaning straightaway, or maybe these are region- or dialect-specific anyway?

Or maybe the first one, ní feárr ann é, means "it's no loss", in the sense "it would be no improvement for it to be there"? ní bheadh an scéal níos feárr dá mbeadh sé ann?

It's difficult to understand. Maybe Gumbi and Braoin would be the best ones to sort this out, having gone to Irish schools and seeing the idiom from both sides?


Ní fearr ann ná as é. is rather easy to decipher: It is not (any) better (whether) he is in or out. = Is cuma ann nó as é. = It/he is no loss.
so:
Ní fearr ann [ná as] é. -> It is not (any) better [whether] he is in [or out]. = Is cuma ann é. = It/he is no loss.
Ní fearr instead of is cuma: It is not even preferable (that he is there).

I think I understand now. :GRMA:


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 Post subject: Re: Ní fearr ann í
PostPosted: Tue 28 Dec 2021 8:58 am 
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Labhrás wrote:
Ní fearr ann ná as é. is rather easy to decipher: It is not (any) better (whether) he is in or out. = Is cuma ann nó as é. = It/he is no loss.
so:
Ní fearr ann [ná as] é. -> It is not (any) better [whether] he is in [or out]. = Is cuma ann é. = It/he is no loss.
Ní fearr instead of is cuma: It is not even preferable (that he is there).

I think I understand now. :GRMA:


Is cuma ann nú as é doesn't mean "it's no loss". That's the problem. It means "it doesn't make any difference whether it is there or not". "It's no loss" means "we have no need to regret it's not being there".

It is not even preferable (that he is there) - yes, that may be the fundamental meaning.


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 Post subject: Re: Ní fearr ann í
PostPosted: Wed 29 Dec 2021 2:22 pm 
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djwebb2021 wrote:
Labhrás wrote:
Ní fearr ann ná as é. is rather easy to decipher: It is not (any) better (whether) he is in or out. = Is cuma ann nó as é. = It/he is no loss.
so:
Ní fearr ann [ná as] é. -> It is not (any) better [whether] he is in [or out]. = Is cuma ann é. = It/he is no loss.
Ní fearr instead of is cuma: It is not even preferable (that he is there).

I think I understand now. :GRMA:


Is cuma ann nú as é doesn't mean "it's no loss". That's the problem. It means "it doesn't make any difference whether it is there or not". "It's no loss" means "we have no need to regret it's not being there".


Only figuratively, of course: If someone's presence or absence doesn't make a difference, and no one really cares - so one could say as well: he is no loss.

Quote:
It is not even preferable (that he is there) - yes, that may be the fundamental meaning.


Then you could also insert "í" or "iad" or "tú" instead of "é", real persons instead of circumstances and even empires. ;)
There aren't many search results. Pádraig Standún (no native speaker) used once "ní fearr ann iad".


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