It is currently Fri 30 Jul 2021 4:50 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: The periodical Comhar
PostPosted: Sun 27 Jun 2021 6:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 75
Has anyone got any thoughts or opinions on this periodical? I have generally only read Munster Irish, and even then only 30 or 40 pages that was not Cork Irish. This has produced the circumstance where I find Peadar Ua Laoghaire easy to read and nothing else.

So I have subscribed to Comhar for a year's worth of magazines to be delivered by post. I plan to read a page a day, as there are 30 pages in the periodical. It's a problem for me that I don't really want to come under the influence of the Caighdeán, but there is no Munster Irish periodical to subscribe to.

How good and natural is the Irish in Comhar?

An bhfuil éinne anso gur féidir leis tuairim a thabhairt uaidh ar irisleabhar Cómhar? Is í Gaelainn Múmhan atá idir lámhaibh agam, an chuid is mó dhe, agus má tá féin níl ach triochaid nú daichead leathanach (m.sh. de Ghaelainn Chiarraí) atá léite agam nách Gaelainn Chorcaí í. Agus 'sé rud a tháinig as, gur féidir liom Peadar Ua Laoghaire do lé cuíosach éasca, agus rud ar bith eile.

Mar sin do ghlacas síntiús bliana le Cómhar, le seachadadh tríd an bpost. Tá sé ar íntinn agam leathanach de a lé gach lá, mar go mbíonn triochaid leathanach ins gach eagrán de. Tá adhb throm leis, gan dabht, mar nár mhaith liom go raghadh an Caighdeán mar dhea fém chuid Gaelainne, ach mar sin féin níl aon irisleabhar Gaelainn Múmhan ann gur féidir síntiús a ghlacadh leis.

Cá nádúrtha a bhíonn an Ghaelainn atá le fáil i gCómhar?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 28 Jun 2021 2:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2014 10:03 pm
Posts: 472
Location: SAM
I'm not going to comment on Comhar, as I haven't read it myself, but I always tend to be wary of most modern things. Lots of people who think they have good Irish aren't native speakers, and their Irish is often quite English-influenced (I've actually had a native speaker tell me even Patrick Pearse's was and used lots of phrases native Connemara speakers wouldn't). It's why I solely rely on Teanglann and Dinneen, or use the Foclóir Corpus, though even that lists some non-natives as native if they said they are. This is the reason my book collection has ended up being mostly stuff from before the Caighdeán by Connemara-based authors, though I'm looking at expanding into other dialects now.

But, if you want to read more widely in Munster stuff that isn't PUL, try looking at Seanachas Amhlaoibh I Luinse, Seanachas Phádraig Í Chrualaoi, Seanachas o Chairbre. All of these are taken from the works collected by the IFC and, unlike Ó Ceannabháin's edition of Éamonn a' Búrc (don't even get me started on how he ruined the natural language usage in this!), they keep dialectal features and spelling quite present and in focused. There's also Ó Duillearga's works, like Leabhar Sheáin Í Chonaill and Leabhar Stiofáin Uí Ealaoire and if you want an unapologetically Connemara based non-standard work, look at Seanchas Jimmí Chearra: Cois Fharraige. He refuses to write in the Caighdeán and refused to let anyone edit it into the Caighdeán so you can see a fair few Connemara features you won't find elsewhere. There's also my blog, which transcribes old works that are more dialectal, as well as transcribing some of the Main Manuscript Collection's works by Éamonn a' Búrc exactly as written, with dialectal notes. I hate that all this great material has been standardized.

I have some pdfs of some of these that I've scanned myself if you want me to send them to you. Just DM me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 28 Jun 2021 3:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 75
Thank you for those suggestions. I'd love it if Seanachas ó Chairbre had been digitised by anyone - to conduct searches in.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 15 Jul 2021 10:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 75
This periodical has arrived and I've read some pages, but I've come across an article by Breandán Delap, apparently a native speaker born in Gweedore with the phrase é sin ráite in. This of course means nothing in Irish, which has má tá féin, mar sin féin etc as the real Irish equivalents. There is also this:
Quote:
Beidh an SNP ag iarraidh a thuilleadh béime a chur ar an chás cultúrtha don neamhspléachas

Obviously he is not from Muskerry, so I should glance over the ag iarraidh, while noting mentally this would be a d'iarraidh in Muskerry. What disturbs me is the a thuilleadh béime. There is a difference in Irish between tuilleadh and a thuilleadh, although I don't think he knows it.

Later in the article:
Quote:
Bheadh Albain chomh rachmasach leis an Iorua mura mbeidís faoi chuing na Sasanach, a maíodh.

I don't like the way a maíodh is put on the end there, as if a direct translation of the English "it is claimed". I don't think this is right in Irish. I would prefer something like ...., is é a mhaíodar.

Then, the very worst sentence:
Quote:
Tá an tóin tite as an tionscal le dornán blianta anuas.

This refers to "the bottom falling out of the oil industry", but is obvious Béarlachas. As a Gaeltacht native, it would be nice if he knew the Irish for this?

Just some points for people who are wondering how good the Irish in Cómhar is.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 16 Jul 2021 8:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1474
FGB (tuilleadh):
Quote:
tuilleadh, a thuilleadh, eolais, additional information

Both can be used in the same sense (adjectively and nominal)
"a thuilleadh" as a phrase can be used adverbially, too, tuilleadh can't.

bottom falling out:

FGB (tóin):
Quote:
Thit an tóin as, it fell apart.

as well so in:
https://www.focloir.ie/en/dictionary/ei/bottom
Quote:
the bottom fell out of the market thit an tóin as an margadh


EID (bottom) suggests "titim a chéile"
Quote:
The bottom has fallen out of the market, tá an margadh tite as a chéile.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 16 Jul 2021 11:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 75
Labhrás wrote:
FGB (tuilleadh):
Quote:
tuilleadh, a thuilleadh, eolais, additional information

Both can be used in the same sense (adjectively and nominal)
"a thuilleadh" as a phrase can be used adverbially, too, tuilleadh can't.

bottom falling out:

FGB (tóin):
Quote:
Thit an tóin as, it fell apart.

as well so in:
https://www.focloir.ie/en/dictionary/ei/bottom
Quote:
the bottom fell out of the market thit an tóin as an margadh


EID (bottom) suggests "titim a chéile"
Quote:
The bottom has fallen out of the market, tá an margadh tite as a chéile.


Lars, you didn't quote any Gaeltacht sources. How was a thuilleadh used in the Gaeltacht before the CO? You can't find the answer to that question in Foclóir Gaeilge-Béarla.

Tuilleadh eólais - more information
A thuilleadh eólais - any more information.

So yes, they both do exist, and did exist before the CO, but the meaning is not the same (something you won't learn by reading FGB). In the sentence I quoted, only tuilleadh would be right - unless of course someone can show that a thuilleadh was always used like that in Donegal?

Thit an tóin as an margadh - this is a calque of the English, even if found in dictionaries. Some calques are of long-standing. It'd be interesting to know how long this has been used. I suspect it has meaning only because all speakers speak English today.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 16 Jul 2021 2:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1474
a thuilleadh ... interesting.
So, it is used in negative (interrogative, etc.) sentences, only?

bottom ...
I haven't even known the English idiom up to now ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 16 Jul 2021 2:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 27 May 2021 3:22 am
Posts: 75
gan a thuilleadh ríghnis: with no more delay
níor fhéadadar a thuileadh eólais a fháil uaidh

But in Aodh de Róiste, where the phrase "more rent" repeatedly occurs "tuilleadh cíosa" is the phrase.

Then elsewhere in that book, there is tiocfaidh siad anuas a thuilleadh (talking of stock prices), and Dónall Bán Ó Céileachair objected (in the journal An Músgraigheach) that An Gúm had fiddled with his Irish, because it should be tiocfaid siad anuas tuilleadh.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 17 Jul 2021 11:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 28 Aug 2011 8:29 pm
Posts: 2954
You can also say:
Níl suim agam ann a thuilleadh.
I don't have interest in it anymore.

Although in Conamara you'd most likely hear "níos mó".


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group