galaxyrocker wrote:
djwebb2021 wrote:
LJCesco, you generally get more sense out of the focloir.ie dictionary. See
https://www.focloir.ie/en/dictionary/ei/shirk for example.
It's interesting, as I generally tell people to avoid foclóir unless the entry doesn't exist in Teanglann. This is because foclóir's corpus is, to put it plainly, not all that great. It doesn't collect solely native examples, and has a lot of non-native stuff. Sometimes,
only non-native stuff is used for a turn of the phrase. I can't remember it now, but I remember using one of those with a friend of mine from Carraroe, and he said he could only understand it by directly translating it to English first, and then gave me a more natural Irish way to say it which was not on foclóir. It's better if you have corpus access, but I also know of at least one non-native who claims to be native and is thus listed that way in the corpus. And, of course, they don't, unfortunately, let you filter by 'Gaeltacht native' versus 'Non-Gaeltacht native'.
I meant in terms of the fact that focloir.ie has a lot of "US colloquialisms" - i.e. very up-to-date English that you can search for. The Irish is a mixed bag. As you say, including non-natives as natives contradicts the very principles of linguistic scholarship. A non-Gaeltacht native - is not really a native speaker at all. Are there any Dublin-based native speakers of Chinese, Hindi, etc? Presumably there are some who claim to be so, but they won't speak like people in China and India. Have you seen videos of Rami Malek being interviewed by an Egyptian and speaking in Arabic for some of the interview (on Youtube)? It is clear that, although Arabic was his first language, growing up in the US has not given him native-equivalent skills, and for most of the interview had to speak in English instead.... Add to that the fact the parents of "native Irish speakers" in Dublin spoke poor Irish to begin with, and the whole thing is a farce. Even some genuine native speakers in the corpus will have looked up many words on teanglann, and so books by Gaeltacht natives are generally NOT written in the language of the tigh tábhairne....