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 Post subject: I'm stuck on Z
PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar 2021 7:02 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
I'm stuck on Z - or when is a last not a last.

I'm having a second look at the learning alphabet in 'Seanchas an Táilliúra/Stories from The Tailor' edited and translated by Aindrias Ó Muimhneacháin. For those of you who are not familiar with it, it was an alphabet devised by their parents for children living in the Gaeltacht in the 19th century who didn't have any English, but who were about to be faced with having to speak it at school. It was based on the visual aspect of objects that were to be seen at home at that time.
Unfortunately the Tailor had forgotten most of his version of it and so thankfully in the notes at the back of the book, Aindrias Ó Muimhneacháin has provided us with the version that he himself had learnt from his own father.
Some of the examples he gives are difficult to understand - the letter Z, for example.


Last edited by franc 91 on Tue 16 Mar 2021 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm stuck on Z
PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar 2021 7:13 pm 
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This is what Tadhg Ó Buachalla (An Táilliúr) has to say about it -

'Bhí an ABC agamsa sarar chuas ar aon scoil; bhí an méid sin foghlama orm. Bhímís ag gabháil dó sa bhaile. Bhíodh sórt rann agam i nGaeilge mar gheall air. Tá sé imithe as mo cheann anois, nach mór.

A: béal mór, itheann sé práta.
C: crú capaill.
D sál bróige.
F: féasóg an chait (the cat's whiskers ?)
G: an gruagach.
J: an camán.
K: an eochair.

Ní cuimhin liom ach an méid sin de, ach sin é an chuma gur fhoghlamíos an ABC ar dtúis. Mar sin a bhí sé ag na seandaoine, agus uathu san a fuaireamar é.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm stuck on Z
PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar 2021 7:29 pm 
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Location: 91 - France
This is the version given by Aindrias Ó Muimhneacháin -

Is mór a raibh ann de leaganacha de seo ar fud na Gaeltachta mar áis, de réir dealraimh, do leanaí nach raibh acu ach an Ghaeilge agus iad ag casadh le Béarla a fhoghlaim. Mar seo is ea d'airios ag m'athar féin é. (I haven't been able to find any of the other versions he's referring to, perhaps someone here might know of some of them ?)

A an béal mór
B an práta
C an crú capaill
D sáil na bróige
E (e) an tsúilín chaoch
F an fliopa
G (g) na spéaclaí
H drom na cathaoireach
I an gearra-bhaitín
J an camán
K an eochair (I would have thought k would have been more suitable)
L an spéal
M an ime agus :dhera:
N á ithe :dhera:
O an fáinne
P an casúr
Q an eireabaill (why is it in the genitive ?)
R (r) an bhuatais :dhera:
S an péistín
T an maide croise
U bogha na sciathóige
V an brístín bréide
W lapa an ghé
X an chros
Y an ghabhlóg (not the fork you use for eating)
Z an brístín leathair. :dhera: :dhera:


Last edited by franc 91 on Tue 16 Mar 2021 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I'm stuck on Z
PostPosted: Tue 16 Mar 2021 7:46 pm 
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The letter Z given in the English version is - the shoe last ! I thought that normally that would be - an ceap gréasaí. It would seem that a shoemaker's last can mean at two things - a block of wood, usually in two articulated pieces which are in the form of a foot. The shoe would be assembled and shaped around this. But there's also a three-ended cast-iron anvil which has shoe shapes at each end, which could be used for mending as well. Ceap is a block and inneoin is an anvil, but what are - ceap treo - and - ceap inneonach - exactly? Of course the other question is how do either of them resemble a letter Z ? I have this picture of looking sideways on at someone sitting astride a low bench, knees bent, with the shoe anvil set on the bench before him..... so perhaps in Irish it should be - inneoin gréasaí ?


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 Post subject: Re: I'm stuck on Z
PostPosted: Wed 24 Mar 2021 2:18 pm 
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Some of them are obvious like, cros, péistín, crú capaill.

M an ime - no idea, unless it's going by the sound, it doesn't look visual.
N á ithe - ditto
Q an eireabaill = genitive is probably a typo
R (r) an bhuatais = The lowercase r does look like an upside down boot.
Z an brístín leathair. = That might be the leather over-trousers that a greasaí would wear, like the things cowboys wear.

I'd say the "ceap" at the end of the metal anvil is mostly for shaping metal, like horseshoes.


I'm guessing these letters would all be handwritten (calligraphy), not in book print. So the shapes could correspond better then.


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 Post subject: Re: I'm stuck on Z
PostPosted: Wed 24 Mar 2021 6:59 pm 
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The reason I've brought this up is that there is in fact the English edition where it clearly says:- M - of the butter and, N - eating it, F - the flap (which I understood to be the flap that you see on a trouser pocket) - for the letter R he gives the small r for a top-boot (which in the 19th century had the top of it turned down showing a different colour) V (an brístín bréide) is - the little freize trews, and the English word given for Z is the shoe-last which obviously doesn't correspond to - an brístín leathair, Q (an eireabaill) - of the tail (so clearly he's indicating the use of the genitive in both languages there).


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 Post subject: Re: I'm stuck on Z
PostPosted: Wed 24 Mar 2021 10:17 pm 
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In Conamara a "flapa" is the front of the trousers, where it's closed with buttons or zip.
I think it's called "fly" in English.


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