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 Post subject: Aloha from Austin, TX
PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2021 8:46 am 
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Aloha Y'all - I wish I knew how to say it in Irish but I just started few days ago so I am now on
"I eat bread and she drinks milk" type of sentences. I am originally from Poland but I lived in Texas
for more than a half of my life. I am a big fan of traditional Irish music - it was not very well accessible
in Poland but a friend made me a tape of Planxty once. When I came to States I was in grad school and
I was TA-ing for a professor from Ireland and I asked him about Irish music. Without a word he took couple
of Chieftain's tapes (yes THAT long ago) from his desk's drawer and handed them to me. About a month later
Chieftains were touring and played a show at our uni and I managed to to get to post-show reception - one of
my greatest memories from grad school - hanging out and drinking beer with The Chieftains. Super nice people.
But I digress....
I was always playing music as a hobby - guitar, some saxophone. Blues, reggae, some bluegrass, folk and jazz.
I never tried to play Irish music - but with COVID19 lockdown I started branching out with my musical interest
and decided to learn harmonica and learn to play traditional Irish tunes on it. So I decided to also try to learn Irish
to "feel" the music better. Learning languages is a bit of a hobby for me - I studied mathematics and I do software
for living so languages always fascinated me as a challenge. Learning new structures - new ways of looking and
communicating information. And as friend of mine once said - with every language you learn - your soul grows.


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PostPosted: Sun 31 Jan 2021 2:44 pm 
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Conas tá tú, Woland? (How are you, Woland?)

That's great to hear you are thinking of learning Irish, it's a fantastic language.

There are many great books and audio courses and other online help and you can always ask any questions here.

I always really like this course called Teach Yourself Irish from the 1990's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ytY6gJZHIY

I can't find the PDF at the moment on line, but have a listen and see what you think.

Good luck (Ádh Mór)

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PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2021 3:23 am 
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Asarlaí wrote:

I always really like this course called Teach Yourself Irish from the 1990's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ytY6gJZHIY

I can't find the PDF at the moment on line, but have a listen and see what you think.

Good luck (Ádh Mór)


Thank you very much for the reply and references - I found scanned book as PDF -
immediately cleared my utter confusion when it comes to pronunciation. And here
I thought Polish was complex! :D Although I must say that grammar-wise Polish
is hard to beat - you have noun declension that depends on preposition- so book on
the table, under the table or by the table will require different form of "table".


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PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2021 3:12 pm 
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That's great you found the PDF of the book.

I'm a musician too (or was before lockdown) and like you was massively influenced by bands like the Chieftains.
For me, it was especially the bands using the Irish language like Clannad in the early days and then Planxty that really got me excited. The Irish triplet rhythm is in my blood. Even when I play Jazz, instead of playing a dotted 8th rhythm I can't help but give it a Celtic swing.

The English language is so easy for people to learn because it's everywhere in pop music, movies, popular culture etc.

As for mutations in the Irish language. There are few changes that can happen but they are constant and easy enough to get used to.

Table - Bord
Nouns change differently depending
If they are preceded by one preposition or two.
Ar bhord - on a table, Ar an mbord - on the table
If they are masculine or feminine
Bord is masculine so it's just An Bord but Bean (Woman) for instance is feminine so An Bhean (The Woman)

If they are in the genitive case -
I can't think of a good example of putting the word Bord (table) in the genitive so let's go extreme with the word woman.
Woman - Bean
A woman's work - Obair na Mná (literally Work of the women)
Fortunately most of the time the genitive is the same as the plural.

It starts to make sense pretty quickly especially if someone already speaks one other language beside their native tongue.

Hope you keep at it.

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzE0zcSQ2amwseJLpS7GnfQ


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PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2021 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun 25 Dec 2011 2:06 am
Posts: 126
[









Woland - Fáilte romhat
Fáilte romhat










quote="Woland"]
Asarlaí wrote:

I always really like this course called Teach Yourself Irish from the 1990's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ytY6gJZHIY

I can't find the PDF at the moment on line, but have a listen and see what you think.

Good luck (Ádh Mór)


Thank you very much for the reply and references - I found scanned book as PDF -
immediately cleared my utter confusion when it comes to pronunciation. And here
I thought Polish was complex! :D Although I must say that grammar-wise Polish
is hard to beat - you have noun declension that depends on preposition- so book on
the table, under the table or by the table will require different form of "table".[/quote]

Woland - Fáilte romhat

There is an Irish Language course book in Polish. It was published in Lublin in 2005. The authors are Aidan Doyle and Edmund Gussman and the title is: An Ghaeilge, PODRECZNIK JEZYKA IRLANDZKIEGO.
As you may know there are three different dialects plus a standard version in Irish. There is really no great difference between them but as a learner it is probably best to pick one and stick with it. This book reflects the Munster dialect which is quite close to the Standard. Good luck and enjoy the ride. -Jim Normoyle


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PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2021 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Sat 03 May 2014 4:01 pm
Posts: 1421
Asarlaí wrote:
If they are in the genitive case -
I can't think of a good example of putting the word Bord (table) in the genitive


cos an bhoird = the leg of the table

Quote:
so let's go extreme with the word woman.
Woman - Bean
A woman's work - Obair na Mná (literally Work of the women)


the work of the woman

(the work of the women = obair na mban)

Quote:
Fortunately most of the time the genitive is the same as the plural.


Only in case of weak plurals in first declension and a few others


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PostPosted: Mon 01 Feb 2021 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Wed 15 Apr 2020 12:09 pm
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Labhrás wrote:
the work of the woman

(the work of the women = obair na mban)


Maith thú a Labhrás, grma.

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PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb 2021 1:28 am 
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Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2021 8:16 am
Posts: 14
Asarlaí wrote:

I'm a musician too (or was before lockdown) and like you was massively influenced by bands like the Chieftains.
For me, it was especially the bands using the Irish language like Clannad in the early days and then Planxty that really got me excited. The Irish triplet rhythm is in my blood. Even when I play Jazz, instead of playing a dotted 8th rhythm I can't help but give it a Celtic swing.


Interesting - 6/8 is very infectious - All Blues by Miles Davis - definite forward propelled feel. I listen to Chieftains/Planxty on
long walks - definite extra energy boost. To quote Jimmy Rabbite from the immortal "The Commitments" movie:
"It is the music people understand. Sure it's basic and it's simple. But it's something else 'cause, 'cause, 'cause it's honest, that's it. Its honest. There's no fuckin' bullshit. It sticks its neck out and says it straight from the heart. Sure there's a lot of different music you can get off on but soul is more than that. It takes you somewhere else. It grabs you by the balls and lifts you above the shite."

And that is is exactly right. Irish music lifts you. And if you need extra adrenaline shot then Pogues, Dropkick Murphys or Flogging Molly. Thanks for reminding me about Clannad - it was known/popular in Poland - in late 70s. Need to put it in my "Irish" playlist.

Couple other famous Irish musicians I met in person - Paul Brady and Rory Gallagher. Paul was playing small venue here in Austin - called "Cactus Cafe" on local university campus. Size of a small bar. Great place for singer songwriter type of acts. You see artists few feet from you and you can chat with them between sets. I remember that he finished with "Lakes of Ponchartrain" and it was done with such grace and beauty that people literally gasped and nobody even tried for encore - there was literally nothing that could top that moment. Later I saw Paul with full band playing in Houston - doing "Crazy Dreams" type of songs. People dancing.
I met Rory in Warsaw after his show - talked to him for maybe 10 minutes. I remember he was super nice, down-to-earth person - none of the rock star attitude. We talked about places to go visit around the city. I remember he was wearing Polish jeans and flannel shirt and was drinking Polish beer during the show. True working men hero ;)


Asarlaí wrote:

The English language is so easy for people to learn because it's everywhere in pop music, movies, popular culture etc.


I do not remember time when I did not know some English - started learning in pre-school

Asarlaí wrote:

As for mutations in the Irish language. There are few changes that can happen but they are constant and easy enough to get used to.

Table - Bord
Nouns change differently depending
If they are preceded by one preposition or two.
Ar bhord - on a table, Ar an mbord - on the table
If they are masculine or feminine
Bord is masculine so it's just An Bord but Bean (Woman) for instance is feminine so An Bhean (The Woman)


Thanks that is very helpful - I assume I will have to run with partial information for a while - build up some basic knowledge through memorization getting used to some construct - then review it with grammar book. Otherwise analyzing every little step will take a long time.

Asarlaí wrote:

If they are in the genitive case -
I can't think of a good example of putting the word Bord (table) in the genitive so let's go extreme with the word woman.
Woman - Bean
A woman's work - Obair na Mná (literally Work of the women)
Fortunately most of the time the genitive is the same as the plural.

It starts to make sense pretty quickly especially if someone already speaks one other language beside their native tongue.

Hope you keep at it.


So on Bean => Mná could you comment on complete change in stem?

Keeping at it gladly :D


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PostPosted: Fri 05 Feb 2021 1:55 am 
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Joined: Sun 31 Jan 2021 8:16 am
Posts: 14
Séamus wrote:
Woland - Fáilte romhat

There is an Irish Language course book in Polish. It was published in Lublin in 2005. The authors are Aidan Doyle and Edmund Gussman and the title is: An Ghaeilge, PODRECZNIK JEZYKA IRLANDZKIEGO.
As you may know there are three different dialects plus a standard version in Irish. There is really no great difference between them but as a learner it is probably best to pick one and stick with it. This book reflects the Munster dialect which is quite close to the Standard. Good luck and enjoy the ride. -Jim Normoyle


Thank you. I will look it up - maybe my family in Poland can locate that book. Amazon lists it as out of print.
I am aware of the three dialects of Irish language - watched some YT vids on that - indeed differences are quite
substantial. In Poland there are several regional accents and dialects - also with big differences. For example the
Tatra Mountains highlanders speak in dialect that uses a lot unique words - to a point that if they do not want you
to follow - they can obfuscate conversation quite effectively. Similarly the Silesian region or Western Poland.
And the worst part is that if you are from Warsaw the accent is so easily detectable that if you go anywhere else
in Poland they immediately take you for arrogant city dweller from capitol city. No way to hide ;)

Hmmm - "An Ghaeilge" is out of print but found PDF online. It was publish by the Catholic University in Lublin which
is a widely recognized academic institution in Poland. Thank you very much - great resource!


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PostPosted: Sat 06 Feb 2021 1:00 am 
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Lots of good stuff to unpack there, Woland.
I'll answer off the top of my head and hopefully reply to most of it. Yes, that's great quote from the Commitments and very true too. He was referring to the Motown genre if I remember rightly, which is another form of music that developed to meet the desire to dance, and enjoy music for its ability to bring people together to have a good time. I'm also a big fan of music that evokes more solitary and reflective emotions or that uses what jazz musician call colour. I must just say (as you are originally from Poland), I love Chopin's music. He's one of the greatest and most artistically distinctive composers that ever lived. He played with 'colour' as did Miles Davis, as you mentioned. Miles Davis once said that the space in between the notes is more important than the note itself..... and he's right!
Strangely, even though many Irish jigs are regarded as 6/8, I personally don't see them that way. To me the classic 6/8 rhythm is like Bob Dylan's 'The Time's they are a changing' or Lennon's 'You got to Hide your love away'. It has the strong 3/4 element but the pulse is in double time. Irish jigs often sound like 12/8 or even 12/4 because it has 4 lots of 3 over a straight 4 on the floor. 123,123,123,123.

I'd say taking an interest in grammar is only something a person really starts to think about when they're learning a language other than their native one for the first time. Of course, some become fascinated at school age by the workings on their own language, its literature and the nuts and bolts of the language itself, the grammar. I wasn't one of those. :o) . I was the kid who played the piano.

Rory Gallagher was a legend. Phenomenal guitarist, such a natural. I knew his ex-wife Sue briefly but never got to meet the great man. Paul Brady..... what a voice.

Bean - Mná. Yep it blow my mind when I first saw that.... but that's the lure of the Irish language!

If I'm ever in Texas, we'll have a jam. Slán go fóill.

_________________
Learning Irish with Asarlai YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzE0zcSQ2amwseJLpS7GnfQ


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